#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2010-02-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[4:05] * Topic is 'Welcome to DuraSpace - This channel is logged - http://duraspace.org/irclogs/'
[4:05] * Set by cwilper on Tue Jun 30 16:32:05 EDT 2009
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[8:46] <valoriehollister> Hello #duraspace! This is Valorie Hollister, Director of Community Development for the DSpace Project. The DSpace Ambassadors will be holding meetings on the IRC today at 14:00 GMT/UTC, 21:00 GMT/UTC and tomorrow at 05:00 GMT/UTC. This will be the first meeting of the Ambassadors -- and a chance to hear how the new program is going for each country/region. We invite anyone on the #duraspace channel to stay on and contr
[8:47] <valoriehollister> Our first will be starting in 15 minutes.
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[8:49] <jozsef_bone> Good afternoon/morning/evening to everyone.
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[9:00] <valoriehollister> Greetings Ambassadors!
[9:00] <jozsef_bone> Hi!
[9:01] <valoriehollister> Looks like there are a few on...I'll everyone 2 more minutes to sign on.
[9:02] <saeedmoaddeli> Hi! :-)
[9:02] <valoriehollister> Let's start with introductions...you all know me already...do others want to jump in?
[9:02] <saeedmoaddeli> IRC with voice would be something..:-P
[9:03] <valoriehollister> it would, Saeed!
[9:03] <valoriehollister> give your name, institution, and what your role is.
[9:03] <Monica_> Hi All. I can start introducing myself :)
[9:04] <valoriehollister> (and country)
[9:04] <saeedmoaddeli> who's first?
[9:04] <valoriehollister> monica?
[9:04] <Monica_> I can start
[9:04] <Monica_> I work at the Universitylibrary in Bergen - Norway
[9:05] <Monica_> We had Dspace (BORA) since 2004
[9:05] <Monica_> I am repository manager here, together with Ingrid Cutler
[9:06] <valoriehollister> do you have any new projects going on for BORA right now?
[9:06] <Monica_> We have lots of DSpace installations in Norway, as most of the universities and colleges have DSpace
[9:06] <Monica_> Yes, actually we do
[9:07] <Monica_> We are, right now, in the middle of a pilot where whe are integrating with our research system
[9:08] <Monica_> We are working hard on this - trying to see what we can actually get oa in BORA
[9:08] <Monica_> A lot I could say :)
[9:09] <valoriehollister> hard to type it all...shall we continue with introductions? Saeed?
[9:09] <saeedmoaddeli> Sure
[9:09] <saeedmoaddeli> My name is Saeed Moaddeli
[9:10] <saeedmoaddeli> I am living and working in Iran, Tehran.
[9:10] <saeedmoaddeli> I am working in the IT dept. of Encyclopedia of Iranian Architectural History ( http://eiah.org/en ) since 2 years ago.
[9:11] <saeedmoaddeli> during the period I was dealing with different types of chores here and Dspace is one them, a good one :-)
[9:12] * Alvin_Hutchinson (~a06ffe11@gateway/web/freenode/x-owklcmunqlkznjic) has joined #duraspace
[9:12] <saeedmoaddeli> we are using Dspace as part of the information architecture at EIAH, as our information pool.
[9:13] <valoriehollister> Saeed presented via video link at last year's OR09 user group mtg -- very interesting presentation about EIAH and the many customizations
[9:14] <valoriehollister> Anything else to add Saeed?
[9:16] <valoriehollister> Not sure if we lost Saeed or not...Jozsef do you want to go next?
[9:16] <jozsef_bone> Sure!
[9:16] <jozsef_bone> My name is Jozsef Bone. I'm working at Open Society Archives in Hungary, which is a part of Central European University. My job title is database programmer, but we are dealing with maintaining, and administering the Soros Network Archival Portal (SNAP - DSpace).
[9:16] * saeedmoaddeli (~saeed@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:17] <saeedmoaddeli> sorry I was disconnected
[9:17] <jozsef_bone> Our DSpace acts like a document archive for several foundations of the Soros Institute.
[9:17] <jozsef_bone> We're at the final stage customizing our 1.5.2 XMLUI
[9:18] <valoriehollister> Anything else, Jozsef?
[9:18] <jozsef_bone> and there are several projects, for example automatically harvest data from several Grant Management Systems, but we're in a very early stage on that
[9:19] <valoriehollister> what are you planning to use to harvest data?
[9:19] <jozsef_bone> we may use SWORD, and the GMS system will push the data into our repository
[9:20] <valoriehollister> sounds interesting
[9:20] <jozsef_bone> or because of we're talking about sensitive data, we will use a secure connection, mirroring database, and we'll harvest from this local database...
[9:20] <jozsef_bone> it'll be a further decision
[9:21] <valoriehollister> Anything else, Jozsef?
[9:21] <jozsef_bone> I think this is almost all
[9:22] <valoriehollister> Alvin would you introduce yourself - name, country, institution, your role and any projects you are currently working on?
[9:23] <Alvin_Hutchinson> Sure . . . I am the Information Services Librarian at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC. We are running a DSpace (1.5.2) repository of mostly reprints of scientific texts but would like to start linking data sets and associated content with the published material.
[9:24] <Alvin_Hutchinson> One thing that is worth mentioning is that almost all repository content is ingested by library staff and not by the user/creator. So we don't have very many individual accounts where users log in and upload papers. It's done by library staff.
[9:24] <Alvin_Hutchinson> I wonder how many other repositories are operated this way and if it is unrealistic to one day expect a (slow) transition to mediated deposit versus upload by the content creator.
[9:25] <Alvin_Hutchinson> Sorry . . . I mean transition FROM mediated TO individual deposit.
[9:26] <valoriehollister> what is others' experience? at your institution is the library uploading or is it the content creator or both?
[9:28] <Monica_> We are harvesting both masterthesis and research material from other systems. A part from that it is mostly library staff
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[9:31] <saeed_> We are uploading the material by our staff and not the content creators
[9:33] <Monica_> Are there someone else from other scandinavian countries here??
[9:34] <valoriehollister> My sense is that this is true for most institutions -- the library is the primary content creator. It seems there are numerous projects like Jozsef's going on in the community -- harvesting metadata from other sources
[9:34] <valoriehollister> Are there any other Ambassadors who haven't introduced themselves?
[9:35] <valoriehollister> If not, I'd like to move on to the next agenda item....
[9:36] <saeed_> let's move
[9:36] <valoriehollister> I'd like to start by asking if any of you have received questions from anyone -- in your official DSpace Ambassador role?
[9:37] <Alvin_Hutchinson> Not as a DSpace Ambassador.
[9:37] <valoriehollister> (and I'd say let's post comments simultaneously )
[9:37] <saeed_> I have but not as an ambassador
[9:38] <valoriehollister> So, no one has been contacted as a result of being listed on the Ambassador wiki?
[9:38] <jozsef_bone> No. It seems in Hungary DSpace is not widely-used (hopefully) yet.
[9:38] <saeed_> Actually I didn't mention that I am an ambassador for this project
[9:38] <Monica_> I haven actually "spread the word" much yet. I have also had some questions, but not as ambassador
[9:38] <valoriehollister> Who are the questions coming from?
[9:39] <valoriehollister> the wider DSpace community?
[9:39] <saeed_> Mine were coming from the local community getting attracted to DSpace
[9:40] <Alvin_Hutchinson> I was contacted by a museum but only via an existing relationship and because they are nearby.
[9:40] <Monica_> The questions I have is from both people who are starting to use DSpace, and also people who used it a while but need opinions
[9:40] <saeed_> mostly from institutions dealing with a mass of digitized content in the field of cultural heritage
[9:41] <valoriehollister> sounds like people have contacted you all because of your affiliations with your institution/projects....not specifically the ambassador role
[9:41] <Monica_> As I already mentioned we have lots of DSpace in Norway. I am hoping to use the ambassador role to cooperate better with Sweden and Denmark
[9:42] <saeed_> You are right Valorie
[9:42] <Monica_> I think so too Valorie
[9:42] <valoriehollister> i think there is a good opportunity to network as Monica says....and I think your experience proves that
[9:43] <Monica_> Yes - I hope so.
[9:43] <valoriehollister> being involved with well know projects is a really key way to network
[9:43] <valoriehollister> or at least to start a network
[9:44] <valoriehollister> is there anything else we could/should be doing to promote you all as Ambassadors?
[9:44] <Monica_> But I also think we need someone in Noway that has a role internationally that people can ask queations
[9:44] <Monica_> Yes. I have differen channels where I can spread the word
[9:44] <Monica_> Norway is a small country :)
[9:45] <jozsef_bone> Maybe it's a better approach to group the Ambassador list not by countries, but continents?
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[9:45] <Alvin_Hutchinson> So I am assuming that the target audience is either those who are considering a repository or those who have launched a Dspace repository but are only just getting started, right?
[9:45] <Monica_> Yes - or both :)
[9:46] <Monica_> Then we can also network across borders
[9:46] <valoriehollister> Monica: ahh...you bring up another good point...do any of you have email lists for DSpace users or other simlar related lists? i'm wondering if we should publish such references on a wiki somewhere
[9:47] <Monica_> You mean for DSpace users in our country?? or??
[9:47] <valoriehollister> Alvin: I think it is also the existing user network as well. The more we can advance users talking / meeting together the better. It may be in areas that there are more users the activities are less focused on helping new/potential users and more focused on networking existing users.
[9:48] * saeed_ (~saeed@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:48] <valoriehollister> Monica: yes, any emal list outside the offical DSpace general, tech or dev lists....
[9:49] <valoriehollister> (poor Saeed! keeps timing out)
[9:50] <valoriehollister> We only have a few more minutes....
[9:50] <Monica_> Yes - we have such a list. It is more of a general list for ia in norway
[9:50] <valoriehollister> Can we talk briefly about future mtgs?
[9:50] <Monica_> yes
[9:50] <Alvin_Hutchinson> OK
[9:50] <Jayan> Hi! All
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[9:51] <valoriehollister> Monica: I'll start a wiki (or look for an existing one) -- let's post any country/regional lists on it. Link to follow in mtg notes
[9:51] <Monica_> Ok :)
[9:51] <valoriehollister> Hi Jayan! Can you do a quick intro? Everyone else, can you give your opnion about future mtgs? Do we want to have a regular time to chat? If so, what frequency?
[9:52] <Jayan> I am with RMIT vietnam campus. In the past I was with NTU Singapore
[9:53] <Jayan> we had DSpace installation successfully done for around 20,000 document
[9:53] <Jayan> looking forward for the next Google summer of code programme
[9:54] <Jayan> http://repository.ntu.edu.sg/
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[9:54] <Jayan> This is the first time attending the meeting
[9:55] <Jayan> looks good
[9:55] <valoriehollister> does anyone think a regular meeting would be helpful? monthly or maybe every other month?
[9:55] <saeed__> I thnk a monthly meeting will be helpful
[9:56] <valoriehollister> Jayan: Glad you could make it
[9:56] <saeed__> and we can have ambassdors' list active
[9:56] <Monica_> Yes - agree with Saeed
[9:57] <valoriehollister> i think future chats might be easier -- i notice when the committers chat they all chat simultaneuosly -- and don't worry about 'interrupting' each other. it is a new way to 'meet' for many of us
[9:57] <Monica_> Chatting is kind of slow, so we should have the list active as well
[9:57] <Monica_> :)
[9:57] <valoriehollister> ok...does this time (or the other options) work ok for all of you?
[9:58] * saeed_ (~saeed@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[9:58] <valoriehollister> it is impossible to make it perfect for all...
[9:58] <Jayan> ok with me
[9:58] <Monica_> Works for me
[9:58] <Alvin_Hutchinson> Sure.
[9:58] <saeed__> OK with me too
[9:58] <valoriehollister> ok....i'll get feedback from the other chats and we'll come up w/a plan via our list.
[9:59] <saeed__> great
[9:59] <valoriehollister> lastly, does anyone have any questions?
[9:59] <Monica_> :)
[9:59] <Monica_> Not right now
[9:59] <saeed__> I have one
[9:59] <saeed__> are we going to do anything special for OR10?
[10:00] <saeed__> something like a presentation for achievements of the ambassadors?
[10:01] <valoriehollister> Elin Stangeland is the program chair for the DSpace user group mtg -- somewhere in that mtg we will talk about the ambassador program
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[10:01] <saeed__> Good.
[10:01] <valoriehollister> at a minumum i will probably give a commutity update w/the ambassador program included
[10:02] <valoriehollister> the feedback that i get on the program is consistently positive -- people think it is a great idea.
[10:02] <valoriehollister> the Fedora community also wants to develop their own ambassador program too
[10:02] <valoriehollister> any other questions?
[10:02] <Jayan> no
[10:02] <saeed__> one more
[10:03] <saeed__> there must be some brief intro about the other system, Fedora available to Dspace ambassadors
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[10:04] <Monica_> Maybe links to Fedora info on the wiki?
[10:04] <valoriehollister> Saeed: there is a good summary spec sheet... one moment
[10:04] <valoriehollister> http://duraspace.org/images/specsheet_Fedora.jpg
[10:05] <valoriehollister> there is also one for DSpace: http://duraspace.org/images/specsheet_DSpace.jpg
[10:06] <valoriehollister> these give an overview in as equivelent terms as possible
[10:06] <valoriehollister> For those who need to leave the mtg, thank you for attending! I'll be posting the transcript and summary notes after all the mtgs today.
[10:06] <Monica_> Great
[10:07] <valoriehollister> Saeed, do those spec sheets help?
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[10:08] <valoriehollister> Are there any other questions? I'll be here for a bit if anything comes up.
[10:09] <saeed__> Valorie: sorry I got disconnected.
[10:10] <saeed__> specs + the differences will be helpful
[10:11] <Monica_> Yes. It is good to know some basics about other systems if asked
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[10:15] <valoriehollister> as you may know it is hard to describe the differences in a lot of detail -- since some attributes that no equvilences. i have another document that someone did last year (not anyone from DuraSpace/Fedora-Commons/DSpace) -- i can send this out to the ambassador list
[10:15] <saeed_> thanks, it will be great
[10:15] <saeed_> Valorie: Thanks for making this mtg possible
[10:16] <saeed_> See you all next time :-)
[10:16] <valoriehollister> Talk to you all next month! Thanks all for joining... and thanks Saeed for your persistence!
[10:16] <saeed_> ;)sure
[10:17] <jozsef_bone> All the best!
[10:17] <jozsef_bone> Bye
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[10:17] <saeed_> Bye
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[10:17] <Monica_> bye
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[11:00] <cwilper> http://fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/FCREPO/2010-02-16+-+Committer+Meeting
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[11:56] <barmintor> http://lib.stanford.edu/searchworks/introducing-blacklight
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[11:57] <barmintor> also http://projectblacklight.org/
[12:02] <cwilper> http://project-voldemort.com/design.php
[12:16] <eddie1415> http://www.sonatype.com/books/mvnref-book/reference/pom-relationships-sect-version-ranges.html
[12:41] <barmintor> fedora-system:3/getAuditData (or something like it) makes sense to me, as well. +1 for Steve's idea.
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[15:59] <ValorieHollister> Hello #duraspace! This is Valorie Hollister, Director of Community Development for the DSpace Project. The DSpace Ambassadors will be holding meetings on the IRC today at 21:00 GMT/UTC and tomorrow at 05:00 GMT/UTC. This will be the first meeting of the Ambassadors -- and a chance to hear how the new program is going for each country/region. We invite anyone on the #duraspace channel to stay on and contribute.
[15:59] <ValorieHollister> Our next meeting will be starting in 2 minutes.
[16:01] <ValorieHollister> Greetings Ambassadors!
[16:01] <Richard_Jizba> Hello
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[16:02] <ValorieHollister> Let's start with introductions...everyone already knows me....would someone like to jump in and introduce themselves?
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[16:03] <ValorieHollister> Name, country, institution, your role and any current projects you are working on or happenings in your country/region
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[16:05] <Richard_Jizba> I have not had anyone contact me as a DSpace ambassador, but we are moving forward with DSpace here at Creighton U. We have hired another reference librarian who will help develop our DSpace service. One of the the other libraries on campus is very interested in joining our efforts.
[16:06] <Richard_Jizba> My "ambassador" role is internal to my institution.
[16:06] <ValorieHollister> Hi Richard - how is the project going? are you getting close to a launch?
[16:06] <sten_christensen> Hello I am Sten Christensen from the University of Sydney Australia and I mamange the Sydney eScholarship Repository.
[16:07] <ValorieHollister> Good morning, Sten
[16:08] <Richard_Jizba> We have launched the service (Bluebrary) andare working on some small projects. The group preparing for the next accreditation visit will likely use DSpace to manage the documentation.
[16:08] <Richard_Jizba> We are also using it for e theses & disserations, newsletters, etc.
[16:08] <alidigitalis> anson parker, used to work for the marshall foundation here in the usa, used to use all greenstone, now moving in to dspace mostly because i'm a huge joomla fan and figure it'll be great for making things look nice + reach larger audience working with 1,000,000 pages or so of microfilm data, scanned pages, maps, photos, slides, videos, audio etc... it's mostly a labor of love at this point :)
[16:10] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: do you have a public URL for Bluebrary yet? I think we don't have you listed on the "Who's using DSpace" list yet.
[16:10] <sten_christensen> We use Dspace to archive all manner of objects from text (theses, articels, working papers ... ) images, audio and video. WE very much try to captuer thoese things that are in danger of begin lost or would benifit from going into the puclic domain
[16:11] <Richard_Jizba> One issue that we had to deal with was changing a collection of lectures (PDFs with mp3 audiofiles from public/anonymous access to a more restricted status. Turns out that isn't so easy to do.
[16:11] <ValorieHollister> alidigitalis: what is the status of the marshall foundation project?
[16:12] <alidigitalis> ValorieHollister: an absolute disaster
[16:12] <alidigitalis> they lost a ton of cash during the last economic meltdown :)
[16:13] <alidigitalis> now i'm setting it up on an old server running vmware :)
[16:13] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: did you do a local customization for the access or were you able to re-use someone else's work?
[16:14] <alidigitalis> it's a disaster except that the data is all there... ~100,000 pages of pdf's have already been ocr'd
[16:14] <alidigitalis> ~1,000 hours of video
[16:14] <alidigitalis> ~500 full size maps from the 1800-1930's 10,000 slides... it's a great collection, just now getting volunteers online to contribute metadata
[16:15] <alidigitalis> yet another reason for getting in to joomla + dspace... it's much simpler for getting individuals to fix errors and revise the metadata
[16:15] <ValorieHollister> alidigitalis: sounds like a big project.
[16:15] <alidigitalis> it's huge.... and all sitting in a basement in the middle of nowhere
[16:15] <ValorieHollister> alidigitalis: are you using the Wijit Joomla work?
[16:16] <ValorieHollister> or something else?
[16:16] <alidigitalis> there are probably another 10,000,000 pages of data waiting to get scannerd - yes - i'm just getting in to the Wijit
[16:16] <ValorieHollister> alidigitalis: this would be a great thing to have as a news piece at some point -- pls keep me posted on your work
[16:17] <kshepherd> may as well introduce myself... Kim Shepherd from LCoNZ (Waikato, AUT, Otago, Unitec) in New Zealand. i'm not an ambassador, just a committer lurking and listening in the background :)
[16:17] <ValorieHollister> Hi Kim!
[16:17] <alidigitalis> I've installed it, i'm using the jumpbox dspace - would like to get it done today.. i'm trying to get the import from dspace to greenstone now
[16:17] <alidigitalis> (oh yeah, i'm no ambassador either, just a happy nerd in charlottesville on a snow day :)
[16:18] <ValorieHollister> Welcome!
[16:19] <alidigitalis> probably the most interesting thing about this project is the most recent project - 1,000 pages have been given metadata by complete strangers volunteering on the net....
[16:20] <ValorieHollister> impressive...there must be some compelling content.
[16:20] <ValorieHollister> Let's move onto the next agenda item...one what, if any questions you have rec'd so far as a result of your Ambassador role?
[16:20] <alidigitalis> run through an approval filter of course...
[16:20] <kshepherd> I'm particularly interested to hear if anybody here runs a repository that is primarily non-English, and if they have any frustrations with translations, locales, and keeping up with DSpace news/announcements (since we mostly just post them to the english dspace-* mailing lists)
[16:20] <ValorieHollister> Sounds like Richard has been working his campus
[16:20] <Richard_Jizba> Yes.
[16:20] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie: It doesn't look like there are any training workshops in the central U.S. anytime soon. If I have two people who I would like get dspace / manakin training sometime in the next 3 months, what are my options.
[16:21] <Richard_Jizba> more ...
[16:21] <mhwood> Mark Wood, another not-ambassador, US, Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis, sysadmin & code monkey, also lurking.
[16:21] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: Have you spoken w/anyone at NITLE?
[16:21] <Richard_Jizba> I can do most of it, but I also want them to meet and talk with others.
[16:21] <sten_christensen> I've only just become and Ambassador, however we've been feilding questions for thelast 4 years. THe main question has been which platorm should I use and why DSpace
[16:21] <Richard_Jizba> No, I didn't see anything listed on the NITLE site.
[16:22] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: you could also have them go through the DSpace Course that Stuart Lewis and Chris Yates put together. It is great.
[16:22] <ValorieHollister> I'll grab the link.
[16:23] <ValorieHollister> http://www.dspace.org/training-materials/Training-Materials.html
[16:23] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: you may also want to email NITLE to see if they'd be willing to set something up. The challenge is to get enough interested people to make it worth their while.
[16:25] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie: I am using Stuart Lewis' materials, and it's helpful -- broad in scope, but only very elementary. I will contact NITLE.
[16:25] <ValorieHollister> sten_christensen: do you have any good references for why someone should use DSpace? this came up in the mtg this morning...there are some spec sheets on DSpace and Fedora that we put together that might be helpful: http://duraspace.org/images/specsheet_DSpace.jpg and http://duraspace.org/images/specsheet_Fedora.jpg
[16:26] <ValorieHollister> I also have a comparative analysis that was NOT done by DuraSpace/Fedora/DSpace -- although we were consulted on it. I will send this as a f/u attachment on the Ambassador list.
[16:28] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: My understanding is NITLE had an excellent resource for the Manakin training -- there fellow named Eric (NOT Eric Jansen)
[16:28] <ValorieHollister> sorry don't remember Eric the fellow's last name
[16:28] <sten_christensen> We have few, mainly it's out of the box;, you can be up an running in a day or two; submission interface ready to go; works with handles and a very large and active user community as well a very actitive tech list is very helpful.
[16:28] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie: We aren't members of NITLE, which may be a problem (?)
[16:29] <Richard_Jizba> Probably Eric Luhrs?
[16:29] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: that sounds right -- shouldn't be a problem not to be a member -- last time i spoke w/them in Aug/Sep they were interested in pursuing training as another revenue stream. not sure where it is now.
[16:30] <Richard_Jizba> OK. Will do. If we set something up I'll invite others to attend. Do you have a list of users for the North Central U.S.?
[16:31] <ValorieHollister> sten_christensen: those sound like the common selling points -- the comparative analysis i'll send later has a lot more detail -- it may or may not be useful -- but i'll send it
[16:32] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: Sounds good. I would suggest sending a msg to the DSpace general list -- but I can also get you a list of users in northe central USA
[16:32] <ValorieHollister> does anyone else have some helpful info / anaylsis on why choose DSpace?
[16:32] <sten_christensen> ValorieHollister: Our ain selling pint is that user come to us an we can demonstrate DSpace, from here we go into greater details, but a comparative analysis would be very useful.
[16:35] * sbayliss (~IceChat7@188-222-88-173.zone13.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: bye!)
[16:35] <ValorieHollister> kshepherd: Not sure that we have anyone from non-English repos on the chat right now....but I think this is an excellent discussion to have.
[16:35] <ValorieHollister> I've been talking w/Tim about this as well.
[16:35] <mhwood> OK, our decision is some years ago, but FWIW: we compared DSpace and Fedora. DSpace was ready-to-run, and Fedora was more like a wonderful toybox full of parts that could be used to assemble a repository. We needed to be up in a short time.
[16:36] <Richard_Jizba> I convinced one of the other libraries on campus that they should use our DSpace installation rather than go with BPress.
[16:36] <ValorieHollister> yeah open source!
[16:36] <sten_christensen> mhwood: this was our situation and thats what we explain to people.
[16:37] <ValorieHollister> kshepherd: on translations/communications - i think we should have an ambassador mtg focused on this -- perhaps invite you/Claudia to provide more info/context on it
[16:38] <kshepherd> cool
[16:39] <ValorieHollister> one thing that came up this morning is that if there are country/regional mailing lists for DSpace (or related) it would be good to make a wiki (or update an existing one if there is one) so that we start by knowing what lists are out there
[16:39] <kshepherd> basically, we're worried that non-english users could be frustrated or even alienated by the lack of up-to-date translations
[16:39] <ValorieHollister> so when info/communcation happens we can make sure it gets to other lists
[16:39] <kshepherd> every time a feature is added to xmlui or jspui, we tend to only update the english messages.xml
[16:40] <mhwood> Well, the developers all speak Java, but many don't speak <your language>.
[16:40] <sten_christensen> ValorieHollister: A regional mailing list would be very helpful would you enviage the Ambassadors maintining and updating it?
[16:40] <kshepherd> it would be great if there was a group of people who could help add suggestions when we add features that involve new "i18n keys" (ie. translatable labels)
[16:41] <ValorieHollister> kshepherd: yes, i think this is a really good point - there could be non-english frustration
[16:41] <mhwood> We need to have people with high skill in <insert language here> who would be willing to *maintain* translations as the software evolves, working with the coders.
[16:42] <mhwood> We probably also need some tools or procedures which will highlight changes to the default message catalog, so that translators can readily see where their skills are needed.
[16:42] <ValorieHollister> sten_christensen: i know there are a number of lists out there -- it seems in non-english counrties in particular. if they don't exist it would be a great thing for the ambassadors to create/mtn or to delegate to someone.
[16:43] <ValorieHollister> mhwood: my understanding is the <insert language> expert does NOT need to necessarily be a developer -- helpful if they know XML, correct?
[16:44] <sten_christensen> ValorieHollister: I'll try and get one together for Australia very soon.
[16:44] <mhwood> Correct to a certain extent. It depends on the nature of the message. I can imagine cases in which it would be helpful to be able to read the surrounding code. But then, you could just ask the coders for clarification.
[16:44] <kshepherd> i don't think XML knowledge is even necessary
[16:45] <kshepherd> we should be able to use a tool like "Pootle" or even just harness the wiki to list keys, their current English translations, and accept suggestions for the other various languages
[16:46] <mhwood> But yes, most of the messages should be about what the user wants to do, not intimately concerned with how DSpace will do it.
[16:46] <ValorieHollister> mhwood and kshepherd: I would suggest we have further discussion about language issues as the possible topic of the ambassadors next mtg....as we are running short of time to do it justice now.
[16:46] <kshepherd> sounds great
[16:46] <mhwood> OK
[16:46] <ValorieHollister> and i'd like some non-english people to chime in too.
[16:47] <kshepherd> let us know which time zone is likely to have the most international ambassadors, perhaps, so we can get the timing right
[16:47] <ValorieHollister> probably the 14:00 and 5:00 GMT
[16:47] <alidigitalis> how large are the messages that need translation.... i'm hispanic fwiw
[16:48] <ValorieHollister> ok...next agenda item....future mtgs....do the ambassadors here think it is useful to meet regularly? if so, how frequent?
[16:48] <ValorieHollister> the suggestion this morning was monthly.
[16:48] <kshepherd> alidigitalis: they're just single words or single phrases, mostly.. labels that appear on the home page like "View Statistics" or "Edit this Item"
[16:49] <alidigitalis> kshepherd: how many pages?
[16:49] <kshepherd> alidigitalis: i'll chat more with you in #dspace, dont' want to derail Valorie's meeting too much :)
[16:49] <alidigitalis> right on :)
[16:51] <ValorieHollister> does a monthly mtg make sense to you all or should we call mtgs as needed?
[16:51] <ValorieHollister> (i.e., can we accomplish what we need to via Google Groups?)
[16:51] <sten_christensen> ValorieHollister: Meetings a good way get discuss our issues, so I think it would be usefu, but possibly every 6 months perhaps as most of us are on various lists.
[16:52] <ValorieHollister> Richard, do you have an opinion?
[16:53] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie, yes ...
[16:53] <Richard_Jizba> I think this meeting seemed a little random. Interesting, but random.
[16:54] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: it was just our intro mtg, but in the future would you suggest more topic based mtgs? do you have other ideas of what would be helpful to you?
[16:54] <kshepherd> sorry, hope my i18n stuff didn't derail the agenda
[16:55] <Richard_Jizba> The issue about translation isn't a priority for me, although I can see how it would be for others. One of the people I want to receive training is fluent in several languages. Maybe someday he can help.
[16:55] <ValorieHollister> kshepherd: no worries....good to hear from you.
[16:56] <Richard_Jizba> Same for me. I'm glad to know about the issue. Our issues right now are simply developing our system.
[16:56] <Richard_Jizba> Here's an example of where we are at ...
[16:56] <Richard_Jizba> An issue I encountered here: I set up a collection administrator. She added a pdf to an item, then realized after she went all the way through the approval steps that it was the wrong file. As a collection administrator she could not delete it. I think she could withdraw it, but that wasn't what she wanted to do. It doesn't look to me like collection administrators have the authority to delete items from their collections
[16:57] <ValorieHollister> ahh....Kim or Mark can help....but I think 1.6 is going to have the ability to distibute admin rights.
[16:57] <kshepherd> Richard_Jizba: the "delegated admins" patch which is in DSpace 1.6 fixes up a lot of those annoyances with collection administrator roles
[16:58] <kshepherd> if anybody here would like to try out 1.6 without building it themselves, they can register an eperson on http://testathon.net and email stuart@stuartlewis.com to get admin privileges
[16:58] <sten_christensen> I need to leave for my next appointment, look forword to the next meeting and further discussion on the group. I'll try an get a regional email address together soon.
[16:58] <Richard_Jizba> Yeah, I saw that. But as the local go to guy (the internal ambassador if you will) it wasn't an easy question to resolve.
[16:58] <ValorieHollister> yes...testathon going on this wk.
[16:59] * sten_christensen (~814e4065@gateway/web/freenode/x-qvfpnoatsuofbabi) has left #duraspace
[16:59] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: did you post to the list?
[16:59] <kshepherd> Richard_Jizba: yeah, it was a problem for me at my institutions too
[16:59] <Richard_Jizba> The documentation says what you can do, but it also needs to point out what you can't do. I keep running into these gray areas.
[17:01] <ValorieHollister> hmmmm. not sure if Tim tdonhue is watching....but Tim, is the grey area Richard mentions above in your "Tips & Tricks" guide?
[17:01] <mhwood> The whole authorization model needs some thought.
[17:03] <ValorieHollister> Here is a link to Tim's preso that has been very helpful to others -- not sure if it would have this in it or not: http://www.dspace.org/training-materials/DSpace-How-To-Guide-Tips-and-Tricks-for-Managing-Common-Dspace-Chores.html
[17:03] <tdonohue> ValorieHollister: just catching up. Currently the "Tips & Tricks" (or How To Guide) is a bit out of date, and isn't updated for latest features. The most recent 1.6 documentation is vastly improved though
[17:03] <ValorieHollister> tdonohue: but new doc won't cover what you CAN'T do in DSpace, right?
[17:04] <tdonohue> the new documentation doesn't necessarily detail what you *can't* do...that's correct. I think it's more oriented towards what is possible. If gray areas keep popping up, that's something we can work to document better
[17:05] <tdonohue> in general, before 1.6, our DSpace docs were lacking -- we're working to clean up the areas where they were lacking, and hoping to produce much more detailed and better docs going forward (they still may not be perfect with 1.6 -- but they are getting much better....and we appreciate any feedback or comments to make them even better)
[17:05] <mhwood> I think people come with expectations learned in other kinds of applications and are surprised when DSpace doesn't work the same way. Their expectations are reasonable, and DSpace's behavior is reasonable, but they don't match.
[17:06] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: it maybe helpful if you start to keep a list of the grey areas or 'can't dos' -- and we can start to help the community fill in the gap you point out. i can start a page in the ambassador google group if you'd be willing to do so.
[17:07] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie, one thing that "troubles" me as an ambassador is that I don't really understand how DSpace / DuraSpace is organized. Admittedly all of my experience is with commerical vendors. I know, or think I know how they are organized, who my customer service rep is, how to get tech support. That's the one issue that other people have with DSpace: it's different and they want need some way to understand it.
[17:07] <kshepherd> mhwood: a "DSpace guide for [EPrints|DigitalCommons|etc] admins", along the lines of "Solaris guide for Linux admins" guides you see around, might be helpful?
[17:09] <Richard_Jizba> Does this make sense? That was what amazed me about convincing the other library to use DSpace rather than BPress. I had to follow some sales / marketing people. Jokes, aside, what they have to offer seems more concrete.
[17:09] <kshepherd> totally understandable
[17:10] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: DuraSpace is the non-profit org that supports DSpace, Fedora, Mulgara and in the future DuraCloud. As an open source project DSpace is supported by the community of users. The roadmap and improvements to DSpace are guided by DuraSpace staff -- but the decisions about what to include and the work is done by volunteers from the community.
[17:10] <mhwood> Yes. Your customer service rep. is "everyone", and tech support is the mailing list.
[17:10] <kshepherd> perhaps an "introduction to open source communities" is also necessary
[17:11] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: yes, but you have to pay for it.
[17:11] <mhwood> kshepherd: that's not really the kind of comparison I was thinking of, but I need to ponder what it was I *was* thinking of.
[17:12] <Richard_Jizba> Valorie: Absolutely. I'm very happy with DSpace, so I'm not trying to be critical, just trying to point out a general issue in terms of convincing others.
[17:12] <Richard_Jizba> I need help explaining the difference.
[17:13] * kshepherd nods
[17:13] <mhwood> FOSS is less like a business relationship and more like a neighborhood.
[17:14] <ValorieHollister> The official mtg time is done (well, over time actually). I will stay on and chat as long as there is interest. Thank you to all for joining the discussion. I will be posting notes and summaries to the wiki -- and annoucning it on the lists. If you have more feedback on future mtgs (either timing or content) please email me at vhollister@duraspace.org.
[17:14] <Richard_Jizba> Right, but something breaks or doesn't work right, it's like wandering around the neighborhood asking if someone can help. (Not is willing to help, but can actually be helpful.)
[17:16] <mhwood> I guess the difficulty is that it takes some time to learn that the guy across the street is really good with small engines, and the family two doors down are outstanding gardeners.
[17:16] <kshepherd> as long as dspace-tech is active, reponsive, and accurate, there are definitely enough clued-up helpful people to give support and advice and help log bugs when they arise
[17:16] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: I think it really depends on the priority and nees of your institution.
[17:17] <kshepherd> in saying that, i've seen questions go unanswered on dspace-tech before and i myself am less active now than i was 6 months ago
[17:17] <mhwood> OTOH in a physical neighborhood you can't just speak a question and have hundreds of people hear it.
[17:17] <ValorieHollister> Do you have customizations you will need to make? Can you get them done locally with little or no extra cost? Or can you spend money on a commerical product?
[17:18] <kshepherd> perseverence goes a long way ;)
[17:19] <mhwood> I suppose my point is that there is help available, but getting it takes a different skill set, one you might not think to employ at first.
[17:19] <ValorieHollister> perserverence and as much detail (logs, etc) as possible
[17:19] <tdonohue> Richard_Jizba: that can unfortunately be true at times. As much as we all try to help out on dspace-tech mailing list (or elsewhere), it all comes down to whether someone has time to volunteer to help out or has seen that problem and can answer it immediately. The other thing to note is that because DSpace has such an active community, we now also have several vendors who are willing to help out if paid (similar to any commer
[17:20] <kshepherd> tdonohue: you got cut off at "similar to any commer"
[17:20] <mhwood> Time is one factor. Another is, "I'd really like to help that person but I don't yet know that area of DSpace well enough to be useful."
[17:20] <tdonohue> ack..
[17:20] <tdonohue> (similar to any commercial software, some of those vendors can provide you with extra services for a fee). So, if an institution is "really stuck" and cannot find a volunteer to help, you still have the option of paying someone to help.
[17:21] <tdonohue> But, i still hope in the end, we can find better models to help people out -- whether it be better docs, more "how to" guides, more tutorials, etc.
[17:21] <ValorieHollister> Richard_Jizba: have you ever logged into this chat for help? someone is usually here...
[17:21] <Richard_Jizba> Tim: I agree. Is there a list of vendors or experts for hire? I'm mosting looking for training support.
[17:21] <mhwood> Again, though, you probably don't go back to the builder to get your house painted; you look through a list of painters to find one who sounds like a good fit.
[17:21] <tdonohue> http://www.dspace.org/service-providers/Service-Providers.html
[17:22] <ValorieHollister> NITLE and @mire are the ones I know of in the USA that do training.
[17:22] <tdonohue> That's our list of service providers. We've also noted which of these service providers give back to the software (through code, etc)
[17:25] <mhwood> Sorry, gotta take my terrible analogies and go now....
[17:25] <Richard_Jizba> Valore & everyone: this is a good conversation. Unfortunately, I have to leave (I need to get to a class). I will look forward to more meetings. I have already sent an e-mail to NITLE.
[17:26] * mhwood (~mhwood@2001:18e8:3:171:218:8bff:fe2a:56a4) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:26] <ValorieHollister> Have a good afternoon/evening!
[17:26] <Richard_Jizba> You too. Bye!
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[23:52] <ValorieHollister> Hello #duraspace! This is Valorie Hollister, Director of Community Development for the DSpace Project. The DSpace Ambassadors will be holding meetings on the IRC today at 05:00 GMT/UTC. This will be the first meeting of the Ambassadors -- and a chance to hear how the new program is going for each country/region. We invite anyone on the #duraspace channel to stay on and contribute.
[23:52] <ValorieHollister> Our meeting will begin in 8 minutes.

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