#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2010-06-23

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[4:06] * Topic is 'Welcome to DuraSpace - This channel is logged - http://duraspace.org/irclogs/'
[4:06] * Set by cwilper on Tue Jun 30 16:32:05 EDT 2009
[4:06] -hubbard.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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[15:58] <tdonohue> Hi all -- DSpace Dev Mtg starts here in a few minutes. Small agenda today: http://wiki.dspace.org/confluence/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2010-06-23
[16:01] <tdonohue> Hmm...seems like a small crowd today ;) Everyone must be busy this week!
[16:02] <tdonohue> (or, maybe it's the fact that OR10 is looming as well)
[16:03] * robint (52292565@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #duraspace
[16:03] <tdonohue> Ok -- well, none of our GSoC mentors seem to be in attendance today -- I know things are moving along decently (at least on dspace-gsoc-student list). For now, we'll skip over the GSoC updates
[16:04] <tdonohue> GSoC will be an agenda item for the face2face at OR10 -- so, hopefully we'll all get some detailed updates from the mentors then
[16:05] <tdonohue> Speaking of OR10 -- still looking for any additional agenda items. In addition, if you are definitely planning to attend, either let me know, or add your name to the attendance list on bottom of page: http://fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2010-07-05+-+OR10+Meeting
[16:05] <tdonohue> (i'm trying to get a final head count, etc)
[16:07] <tdonohue> Anyone have any questions/comments about the OR10 meeting? If you haven't had a chance, take a look at how to get to our committers mtg -- it's *not* at the same location as the conference (unfortunately that space wasn't available)
[16:09] <tdonohue> quiet group today :) I can definitely tell we're all busy -- no worries, we may just make this meeting short if need be
[16:09] <robint> Hi Tim. I'm just looking forward to meeting people in person :)
[16:10] <tdonohue> As am I! I'm looking forward to meeting everyone and having a chance to chat more over beers (or whatever) in the evening
[16:10] <PeterDietz> same here
[16:11] <tdonohue> Any more comments on the DSpace & Fedora Integration FAQ? I wanted to bring this up again, as it will become highly advertised at OR10 (it's a big talking point for DuraSpace). If you have questions you'd like to see clarified / added, etc. that'd be great to know (as we are going through final edits before OR10)
[16:11] <tdonohue> http://fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/DSPACE/DSpace-Fedora+Integration+FAQ
[16:13] <tdonohue> you can also send me comments via email, if want. This will also be a topic at the OR10 committers meeting (obviously)
[16:13] <robint> I still feel a little too ignorant on the whole subject to make any worthwhile comment.
[16:13] <mhwood> Whenever this comes up, I think of someone saying, "why don't we weld our Camaro on top of that Mustang over there?" I think we need to say up front (a) why this makes sense, and (b) which parts of Fedora we're really talking about.
[16:13] <tdonohue> robint: no problem -- we can talk through this more at the committers mtg as well & hopefully come to a common understanding
[16:15] <tdonohue> mhwood: understood -- We tried to tackle the answers to (a) in that FAQ -- as for (b), that's a bit of a work in progress -- there's already some projects (GSoC) that make use of some parts of Fedora which we can build on -- the hope is to start at that level and build off of
[16:16] <tdonohue> I'm referring to the past GSoC Fedora Integration projects (2008 & 2009): http://www.fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/DSPACE/Past+Google+Summer+of+Code+Projects
[16:18] <tdonohue> but again -- a big part of this is not to say "here's how we (DuraSpace) think this software must change".... it's more to make a (potentially controversial) recommendation in order to gage community response, and come to a common understanding of how to move forward.
[16:18] <mhwood> I think we are going to lose people who don't already know Fedora if we don't say somewhere in the first 3-4 sentences, "people want to do this because <simple reasons>."
[16:19] <tdonohue> mhwood -- so are you talking about a sort of "elevator pitch" statement?
[16:19] <mhwood> Term not recognized.
[16:19] <tdonohue> sorry -- that's me slipping into old consulting "lingo"
[16:20] <mhwood> It's a long statement. People need to know why they should read on. If you know Fedora, then I guess you would know why to read on; otherwise it sounds absurd.
[16:20] <tdonohue> an "elevator pitch" is a quick explanation to generate interest, etc. It's called that, cause it should be brief enough that you could discuss in a brief elevator (lift for the UK folks) ride
[16:22] <tdonohue> yea, I think we're talking about the same thing -- I'd agree, we need to avoid losing people on the mention of Fedora, and need to make it clearer in the first few sentences what we are talking about
[16:22] <tdonohue> thanks -- that's good feedback
[16:22] <mhwood> I just think it needs a FAQ 0 before "what are the plans": "why do I care?"
[16:23] <mhwood> OK, I've been heard.
[16:23] <tdonohue> understood.
[16:23] <tdonohue> yep -- I agree -- I'll work on that -- a better intro into this whole FAQ is needed
[16:25] <tdonohue> Ok -- sounds like that's it for comments on the FAQ (send more to me if you have them)
[16:26] <tdonohue> Is there anything else anyone wanted to discuss?
[16:27] <tdonohue> Any interest in doing some JIRA catchup today, or is everyone busy (and in need the extra 1/2 hour of time)?
[16:28] <Keithg> busy today :(
[16:28] <PeterDietz> I'll be asking about 1.7 at OR10
[16:28] <mhwood> Can do JIRA if we have enough
[16:28] <kshepherd> hi all, sorry i'm late.. going to be hard to make meetings at 8am now that i live so far from work
[16:28] <mhwood> Excuse me, enough members here.
[16:28] <robint> I'm happy to join in a Jira review
[16:29] <kshepherd> same
[16:29] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- 1.7 discussion is a good topic to add to our committers mtg
[16:29] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- I mean, the OR10 committers mtg (also this regular one too)
[16:29] <mhwood> PeterDietz: you mean, people will be asking YOU about 1.7 then. :-)
[16:30] <tdonohue> Ok, sounds like we have enough to do a JIRA review then.
[16:30] <PeterDietz> I was hoping I didn't have to sit in the hot seat,
[16:30] <robint> At some point I would like to see another discussion about source versus binary releasess.
[16:31] <tdonohue> robint -- good topic to bring up. I'd be good to also bring up at our OR10 mtg
[16:31] <PeterDietz> I noticed that the instructions to install fedora seem to be: java -jar /path/to/fedora-install.jar
[16:31] * kshepherd just did that yesterday for the first time ;)
[16:31] <tdonohue> yep-- that's right, PeterDietz -- they have an installer
[16:32] <kshepherd> it's an interactive "q&a style" installer, with three options - quick, custom, or client
[16:32] <tdonohue> it'll also install a basic Tomcat setup for you, if choose the "quick" option
[16:33] <tdonohue> (so, maybe that's something we could look at -- be nice to simplify our installation as much as we can)
[16:34] <mhwood> So long as it's optional. I hate installers.
[16:34] <tdonohue> sure we could make it as such :)
[16:34] <PeterDietz> yeah, I think theres a source release as well.. so on with the jira?
[16:34] <kshepherd> i didn't try using fedora's source install
[16:35] <tdonohue> Ok -- JIRA Review now...starting with DS-528
[16:35] <tdonohue> here's the search I'll work from: http://jira.dspace.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&pid=10020&resolution=-1&created%3Aprevious=-12w&status=1&assigneeSelect=&sorter/field=created&sorter/order=ASC
[16:35] <tdonohue> Ack -- that doesn't go far enough back -- here's a better one http://jira.dspace.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&pid=10020&resolution=-1&created%3Aprevious=-14w&status=1&assigneeSelect=&sorter/field=created&sorter/order=ASC
[16:36] <PeterDietz> for the richer RSS, I customized it to support iTunes podcasts
[16:36] <tdonohue> RSS feeds to support richer features, such as iTunes Podcast or Media RSS: http://jira.dspace.org/jira/browse/DS-528
[16:36] <PeterDietz> Sands has done works with MediaRSS (for images)
[16:37] <PeterDietz> and Mark brings up the idea that you might want to be able to create a feed for all audio items
[16:38] <PeterDietz> so i guess the question becomes we would almost want to make a base class / interface and then plug in an "enrichment" to the feed
[16:39] <tdonohue> so, it looks like the work so far has proven it's possible -- but there needs to be a better implementation (as you said a class/interface that allows such enrichment)?
[16:39] <PeterDietz> So I'm thinking to follow the media filter plugin model
[16:40] <PeterDietz> however, I'm not sure how complicated that makes making a feed
[16:41] <tdonohue> I think it's fine to follow an existing model -- you just want to give several pre-configured options to people -- so they don't need to figure out how to enable iTunes Podcast feeds, etc
[16:42] <PeterDietz> yep, I do run into dc.creator vs dc.contributor.author on this I think
[16:42] <tdonohue> so, in general -- +1 sounds like a good idea -- I'd just like to see it built out more, and made easy to turn on/off
[16:43] <tdonohue> yea, dc.creator vs. dc.contributor.author problems are everywhere :(
[16:43] <PeterDietz> I'll add my latest code to the JIRA
[16:44] <PeterDietz> ...and think about refactoring it be easier to extend
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[16:44] <tdonohue> that'd be nice. Are there other questions on this? Otherwise, we could move on -- and PeterDietz can bring updates/questions to future meetings as needed
[16:45] <tdonohue> Next one -- Allow automatic mapping between collections : http://jira.dspace.org/jira/browse/DS-529
[16:46] <PeterDietz> can you do OAI harvesting on yourself?
[16:47] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- you could harvest from one DSpace to another (using the OAI collection options) -- never tried harvesting in the same DSpace?
[16:48] <tdonohue> DS-529 : is an interesting feature idea -- needs volunteers though
[16:48] * mhwood wonders if the fabled Discovery module could instead make collections that are views over results of stored queries or some such.
[16:48] <robint> I like the idea but it wouldnt be top of my list
[16:49] <tdonohue> mhwood -- good thought -- Solr does make those sorts of "views" easier
[16:49] <kshepherd> i know Otago does this kind of thing.. but in reverse.. theses are deposited to an ETD collection then mapped to departmental collections
[16:49] <robint> mhwood: virtual collections
[16:49] <PeterDietz> I suppose if the issue is that all ETDS go into: ETD -- Undergrad Honors -- Engineering, then to have (College of Engineering -- Undergrad) just harvest the other collection.
[16:49] <mhwood> robint: correct.
[16:50] <tdonohue> Sounds like DS-529 may need to move to Discovery work, and be generalized as an idea for 'virtual collections' in Solr
[16:50] <mhwood> How many ways are there of imagining this mapping? We have two already: many -> one and one -> many.
[16:50] <kshepherd> mm, i like the idea of using 'views' or 'virtual collections' over lots of complicated mapping ;)
[16:51] <tdonohue> Allow mapping searches based on dc.type : http://jira.dspace.org/jira/browse/DS-530
[16:52] <kshepherd> the item map admin UI is quite odd to use..
[16:52] <kshepherd> it's also inconsistent between JSPUI / XMLUI
[16:52] <tdonohue> yea -- that UI is not the best and needs work
[16:53] <PeterDietz> DS-530 is about the difficulty to grab based on a filter via OAI?
[16:53] <kshepherd> the 'search by author' is also case sensitive
[16:54] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- no, the question is actually about the "Item Mapping" Admin UI, I believe -- the OAI mention is actually slightly off topic
[16:54] <kshepherd> slightly, although it's related to DS-529 in that a 'virtual OAI set' or 'virtual collection' with an easy way to search/filter for source items would also solve the problem
[16:55] <kshepherd> but the underlying problem is that it's hard to map items, hard to manage mapped items, etc
[16:55] <tdonohue> kshepherd -- true -- there's two problems here: (1) the Item Mapping Admin UI is bad (only allows search by author).... (2) it's hard to put stuff in 'virtual collections' or 'virtual OAI sets'
[16:56] <PeterDietz> ok I think the driver for these two might be the difficulty for consortia like OhioLink to easily scoop all "Thesis" from the various edu repositories in Ohio. or vice versa
[16:57] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- I think you are correct on that
[16:57] <kshepherd> PeterDietz: yeah.. there's no reason sets have to relate directly to collections
[16:57] <kshepherd> i'd love more configuration around building OAI sets
[16:57] <mhwood> There's been comment before that the PMH responder is too inflexible w.r.t. constructing sets.
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[16:58] <tdonohue> RE: OAI configurable Sets -- there's a much older issue open: http://jira.dspace.org/jira/browse/DS-277
[16:58] <mhwood> I get the feeling that what we have now answers the question, "what can we provide easily". Eventually we have to answer, "what makes sense to provide?"
[16:59] <robint> It would be a shame to stick to a rigid collection structure just to accomodate OAI. The tail wagging the dog.
[16:59] <PeterDietz> I think something like a useful HTTP API would help here
[16:59] * achelous (~tom@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:59] <mhwood> PMH doesn't know anything about collections. Membership of "sets" can be anything computable, IIRC.
[16:59] <PeterDietz> I think /communities/list or /communities/34567/collections/list would help
[17:00] * kshepherd likes this topic :)
[17:00] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- now you are talking REST API :) Good suggestions for the REST GSoC project
[17:00] <mhwood> Perhaps. But then you will have to answer a thousand variants of "we already have PMH, why not use that?"
[17:00] * PeterDietz didn't want to get told to go read some guys dissertation, therefore didn't use the word REST
[17:01] <PeterDietz> ...but yeah, thats exactly what I would be happy with
[17:01] <kshepherd> just sticking to PMH for now, i think it'd be great to be able to create new sets based on a query string of some sort, instead of a collection handle
[17:01] <kshepherd> etc..
[17:01] <tdonohue> I think we essentially need a few interested volunteers to dig into this a bit more -- Is there a way to improve our OAI-PMH interfaces so that they don't rely as much on community/collection hierarchy? Will Discovery help?
[17:01] <kshepherd> i might try and come up with a few ideas/demos over the next 2-3 weeks
[17:02] <tdonohue> kshepherd -- go for it
[17:02] <kshepherd> so i'll volunteer, OAI is soemthing i'm pretty interested in
[17:02] <tdonohue> here's some past work to look at: http://wiki.dspace.org/confluence/display/DSPACE/DSpaceOAISets
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[17:03] <tdonohue> Ok -- we're now over time, so we'll stop there. Good discussion on those issues, though they still need volunteers (but hopefully that will come)
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[17:03] <tdonohue> so, we'll close the meeting up for today. have a good rest of the week
[17:04] <mhwood> 'bye all!
[17:04] <kshepherd> cheers all
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[17:11] <kshepherd> tdonohue: btw, i think the time for the "DSpace Developers IRC Chat" item in the DSpace Community google calendar needs updating? either that or there's some DST weirdness that makes it appear an hour earlier to me
[17:12] <tdonohue> checking...
[17:12] <tdonohue> hmm...no, it appears correct for me. It shows as having started ~1hr ago. maybe this is Google calendar acting weird?
[17:13] <kshepherd> yeah could be, i'll make sure it has me in the right timezone etc. (my other apps seem ok)
[17:21] <tdonohue> kshepherd -- I just changed my personal google calendar settings to NZST -- and the mtg then appears for me as 8am-9am (which I think is correct). So, you might want to check your settings.
[17:23] <kshepherd> that's correct.. mine still says 7am - 8am (i'm in GMT+12 - Auckland, New Zealand but i'll check again.. if it's adding an extra hour on because it thinks i'm on NZDT which is +13, that'd explain it..)
[17:25] <kshepherd> nope, it's all GMT (or UTC) + 12.. oh well.. the red line that shows 'current time' is always correct, just the events on DSpace Community look an hour behind. i'll figure it out later ;)
[17:30] <tdonohue> strange
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