#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2010-11-03

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[19:50] <PeterDietz> Dev Meeting in #duraspace in 10 minutes
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[20:00] <PeterDietz> Hooray: Todays dev meeting: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2010-11-03
[20:00] <PeterDietz> Topic: DSpace 1.7 RC1 is in two days. Is all your stuff ready to go?
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[20:01] <PeterDietz> Also: look over the documentation to make sure features have their needed things, especially if you've committed a new feature
[20:01] <PeterDietz> Also: Testathon is next week, here's a pretend preview of what the site will look like with the uservoice feedback button. http://duraspace.uservoice.com/admin/widgets/demo
[20:01] <PeterDietz> The links will take the user to a feedback forum: http://duraspace.uservoice.com/forums/84583-dspace-1-7-feedback
[20:02] <PeterDietz> umm, thats enough pasting in pre-written scripts. Lets begin
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[20:02] <PeterDietz> First, any questions?
[20:02] <grahamtriggs> Just about to commit a TableRowIterator change so that it retains the list of columnnames, instead of DatabaseManager trying to generate them on every row.
[20:03] <richardrodgers> Are we still trying to cut a testable instance Fri?
[20:03] <stuartlewis> PeterDietz: Looks good - hopefully the uservoice function will get used.
[20:04] <PeterDietz> stuartlewis, others who would want to host a testathon instance, I can share the embed code, so that everyone who runs an instance can also have a feedback button to the same centralized feedback site
[20:04] <stuartlewis> Nice
[20:04] <richardrodgers> Yep that's cool
[20:05] <PeterDietz> richardrodgers, yes, I was hoping/planning to cut on friday, I can do this on saturday, if we'd like to allow for everyone to finish up things this week
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[20:07] <richardrodgers> PeterDietz: either way is OK - it had more to do with whether you will have cycles to incorporate the SEO stuff by then...
[20:08] <PeterDietz> ahh yes, I would like to have scholar in the first release candidate, it would be a good way to get feedback, and perhaps Google can chime in on whether or not it works for them, perhaps they'll run googlebot over demo.dspace.org and see that we're doing things properly
[20:10] <PeterDietz> For everyone that this is news to, we're adding special metatags that work well with googlescholarbot, so that metadata in a dspace instance will be associated with a pdf in google scholar
[20:12] <PeterDietz> In other news, grahamtriggs, is awarded the night owl award, perhaps we can all mail him some live owls
[20:12] <PeterDietz> Plenty of fixes have been flowing in, and other reindexing enhancements have been happening, cheers
[20:12] <richardrodgers> Yea grahamtriggs: when do we get our code back? ;)
[20:14] <PeterDietz> OK, So, does anyone have any more 1.7 things to talk about.
[20:14] <PeterDietz> Finally, I updated the Roadmap to help steer a user towards what they're looking for. (Improved with color). https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/RoadMap
[20:14] <jefftrimble> Documentation is being caught up as we speak.
[20:14] <sandsfish> few more patches/fixes coming from MIT before the end of the week.
[20:15] <sandsfish> and documentation on google scholar functionality.
[20:15] <jefftrimble> oooo that would be nice......
[20:16] <sandsfish> it's not terribly complex, but requires some detail.
[20:16] <jefftrimble> Some documentation may look "funky" when producing PDF files until "we" all get the hang of producing comparable pdfs that we got out of docbook
[20:16] <sandsfish> we are doing all docs in the wiki now, is that correct?
[20:16] <jefftrimble> yes...and I have a guideline to put up there...
[20:16] <kshepherd> morning all
[20:16] <jefftrimble> my biggest mantra is: Do no harm.
[20:17] <jefftrimble> :-)
[20:17] <mhwood> I ran into some material that looked like it didn't translate properly. I fixed it up (I hope) but there may be more I haven't seen.
[20:17] <jefftrimble> if you touch it, it will send me email to let me know.... :-)
[20:18] <jefftrimble> no fear, I carry a pooper scooper with my laptop for documentation cleanups and messes.
[20:18] <jefftrimble> so far those who have edited have done nicely.
[20:18] <jefftrimble> I still offer to edit something if you are fearful or just need a little extra hand. :-)
[20:18] <sandsfish> are there any gotchyas to watch out for that will help with the PDF translation?
[20:19] <jefftrimble> Sands, we don't know yet. It looks like the learning curve is writing a complex style sheets.
[20:19] <sandsfish> k
[20:19] <jefftrimble> {code} takes up twice the room as it did in docbook output.
[20:19] <jefftrimble> So, in many instances I'm attempting to replace {cdoe} with {{ monospaced font}}
[20:20] <jefftrimble> that's a long way off...probably by the decembe release that will be revised.
[20:20] <mhwood> Yeah, {code} taught me to look for something else too.
[20:20] <jefftrimble> {{ monospace font}} works.....there is a BIG document on customizing in Confluence. Again like docbook, not for the faint-hearted. LOL
[20:21] <PeterDietz> MIT, glad to hear that things are coming in. Be sure to update the release notes when features/etc are more or less committed. As in the unsure section should be updated, and things moved up to "New Features"
[20:21] <mhwood> Eww, physical markup....
[20:21] <richardrodgers> PeterDietz: will do
[20:22] <jefftrimble> yeah, the Rich Text editing tool isn't good for nitty gritty...you have to use Wiki Markup.
[20:22] <richardrodgers> Do we want a 'readathon' or is that encompassed in the testathon?
[20:23] <jefftrimble> As with 1.6.x we found most errors due to the testathon and corrected as needed. After 1.6, each one got easier. We're at the beginning again since moving to Confluence.
[20:24] <jefftrimble> I'll be happy to have anyone who wants to read the docs. :-) Accuracy is what we're looking for, not necessarily presentation (e.g. how pretty does it look).
[20:25] <mhwood> I think documentation quality is part of software testing, but now that you mention it, it might be more inviting to cast it as a separate activity, to attract people who don't code or don't feel up to wading through DSpace code.
[20:25] <richardrodgers> k - just wondered if we wanted to call it out separately...
[20:25] <jefftrimble> Agree.
[20:26] <PeterDietz> I don't think there's a way to modify confluence.duraspace, which means I can't stick some "Feedback" button embed code in there. In the uservoice feedback, a person can categorize their feedback/complaint as one of {xmlui|jspui|discovery|documentation}, however, I don't know if people will think to categorize, or even if that will be needed
[20:26] <jefftrimble> We've asked before, no takers.... not too many brave souls like to proof and find problems.
[20:27] <jefftrimble> But if the feedback button does give a documentation opportunity, that would be better than no feedback.
[20:30] <PeterDietz> Another sidenote, is that Mark WhosNotHere Diggory wants to switch from using osuosl to host maven to going with sonatype. This is over my head, since I've not cut a release yet, but wondering if anyone had input on that?
[20:31] <richardrodgers> Don't have an opinion - but it's a just a little pom change, no?
[20:31] <mhwood> Are our artifacts usable for anything other than DSpace? If not, my first reaction is that they should not be in a general repository.
[20:32] <sandsfish> mhwood: do you mean by "a general repository", just a maven hierarchy, as it is today?
[20:34] <mhwood> I meant: the well-known repo.s contain (mostly) artifacts that are generally useful. I feel that stuff which only relates to other parts of itself should be out of the way.
[20:35] <sandsfish> my understanding is that all dspace artifacts are currently distributed to maven central. this is a pretty broad use repo.
[20:36] <kshepherd> that's correct.. dspace stuff is on repo1.maven.org, etc.
[20:37] <sandsfish> that is one question. i think it is maybe orthogonal to mark's suggestion though, which is (i believe) just that we use the Sonatype tool for managing the repository, instead of manually distributing to repositories.
[20:37] <kshepherd> i don't think Mark is talking about anything to do with where the released/distributed artifacts end up
[20:37] <kshepherd> sandsfish: yes, that's how i read it too
[20:38] <kshepherd> eg, replace http://maven.dspace.org with a sonatype repo (possibly hosted elsewhere)
[20:38] <mhwood> OK, so I'm confused along several dimensions. Close mouth, begin reading....
[20:38] <sandsfish> :) yeah, i'm not entirely sure if it means replace maven.dspace.org, or if it means managing maven.dspace.org with the sonatype tool.
[20:38] <kshepherd> (oh, btw, I meant Mark D when i said Mark, just to be clear ;))
[20:39] <sandsfish> perhaps mark d. could clarify on dspace-devel
[20:39] <PeterDietz> Alright, then I'll jump to a next topic
[20:39] <PeterDietz> Also, any input on what features should be active on demo.dspace.org? I'd like to give discovery some exposure, so it can be tested more thoroughly before the final release. Any viewpoints on having our main testathon use normal xmlui, or discovery xmlui?
[20:39] <sandsfish> (we don't actually have to make this decision, as i see it, until the release of 1.7)
[20:40] <sandsfish> Peter: what auth is typically deployed there?
[20:40] <kshepherd> re demo: i think it'd be useful to show off discovery using the mirage xmlui theme
[20:40] <sandsfish> i think maybe Shib wasn't there in the past. i don't know if that's even a possibility, considering the back-end requirements.
[20:40] <PeterDietz> demo.dspace.org is using basic email auth i believe
[20:41] <mhwood> If we have to choose, I'd say without Discovery, since (as I recall) 1.7 will ship with Discovery turned off.
[20:41] <kshepherd> right, if it's one or the other, then definitely 'without' discovery
[20:42] <sandsfish> i have to admit, i've not been keeping up with discovery and how it manifests. is it a separate UI / webapp?
[20:42] <kshepherd> i don't think it's *too* hard to just add an extra paragraph to a second XMLUI link on demo.dsapce.org that says something like "This app showcases the [experimental] solr search shipped with dspace 1.7" so people don't expect it out of box
[20:42] <sandsfish> if it doesn't get in the way, perhaps it would be good to have present so we can play?
[20:43] <PeterDietz> discovery is just an aspect you add to xmlui, solr has a new core in the backend
[20:43] <sandsfish> gotchya
[20:43] <kshepherd> sandsfish: it's been squeezed into trunk as a module with its own api and xmlui aspects/overlays, essentially
[20:43] <kshepherd> i think i said that right
[20:44] <sandsfish> i guess i'd vote without then, and a separate instance to showcase it, if it's possible and easy.
[20:47] <kshepherd> very easy, just not free ;)
[20:47] <grahamtriggs> How do we feel about Postgres driver 9.0-801.jdbc3?
[20:48] <mhwood> How do *you* feel about it? It's rather new.
[20:48] <PeterDietz> Re:discovery, Its an interesting addition, and our testing site can deviate from what you get out of the box, provided we make it clear what we're showing. I think users would be interested to see whats available in the next release. And this would give something worth checking out. I'm on the fence currently.
[20:49] <grahamtriggs> mhwood: well, the one we're using is rather old - and it appears to pre-date some useful performance enhancements. I'm just playing with 9.0 right now, no problems so far - although I'm also using a 9.0 database (no problems with that either)
[20:49] <keithgilbertson> discovery: I think we should show it somewhere. Because it's newer code, it may be a good opportunity to find bugs early
[20:50] <kshepherd> PeterDietz: i just think it's such a visually (and functionally, for search) obvious addition to 1.7 that it'd be a pity to ignore it completely. there are plenty of other cool new features in 1.7, but i don't know how much testing AIP, curation etc. will get on demo.dspace.org
[20:50] <kshepherd> it's an easy thing to "demo"
[20:50] <kshepherd> but again, i know users should be made aware that it's probably not ready for production use yet
[20:51] <sandsfish> some notes on the front page may clarify that, if we do decide to include it.
[20:51] <kshepherd> yep
[20:52] <keithgilbertson> right. it wasn't clear to me that discovery is "beta" (even though I'm sure it's been mentioned several times)
[20:52] <kshepherd> grahamtriggs: i haven't fooled with postgres 9 yet, but built-in replication is enticing me...
[20:52] <mhwood> jdbc-postgresql: 8.1 *is* rather old. I'm using 8.4_p701 here.
[20:52] <sandsfish> how new is 9.0-801?
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[20:53] <mhwood> Gentoo hasn't packaged 9 yet (but then, it took a couple years of prodding to get them up from 8.0. )-:
[20:54] <grahamtriggs> sandsfish: just over a month, although it's a minor revision to a dev release that they made in May
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[20:54] <richardrodgers> grahamtriggs: is it backward compatible? a lot of folks can't go to 9 yet
[20:55] <grahamtriggs> richardrodgers: probably... although I wouldn't swear to it as I've not tried it or seen any explicit references
[20:55] <grahamtriggs> (I've only *just* started to play with it)
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[20:55] <mhwood> Perhaps a more recent 8.x?
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[20:56] <PeterDietz> discovery: Definitely worthy of demonstrating, and demo.dspace.org already has a bunch of public content, whether its well curated or not, so I'm thinking to show it.
[20:57] <sandsfish> mhwood: a recent 8.x sounds reasonable.
[20:57] <grahamtriggs> although Postgres advice is: "Consider upgrading your JDBC driver to the latest version. It should be backwards compatible and may have fixed your problem."
[20:57] <PeterDietz> Since we're nearing the end of the hour, I'll add that: DSUG 2010 is in Baltimore next week (Wednesday). I'll be giving an overview of 1.7 (mostly whats in it for me) -- https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/SPARC+DSpace+User+Group+Meeting+Fall+2010
[20:57] <kshepherd> i'd say >= 8.4 at least
[20:57] <tdonohue_> PeterDietz -- just catching up here. maybe you could enable two versions of XMLUI? One with Discovery and one without? Not tried that myself, but it could be a way to promote the differences between Discovery and normal XMLUI
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[20:58] <sandsfish> i've got one other 1.7 question before we wrap up. commons-dbcp. i would like to bump it to the latest version. any complaints? there seem to be some significant bug fixes.
[20:58] <tdonohue_> PeterDietz -- what I mean is actually creating a 'http://demo.dspace.org/xmluiDisc/ path (or similar), to go alongside the existing http://demo.dspace.org/xmlui/
[20:58] <mhwood> Yes, would not like to see Discovery left out, but if there can be only one then it should be the default one.
[20:59] <PeterDietz> That might involve some tomcat trickery that might give the user the misleading impression that they can run both in tandem. It would be better to have seperate instances, or to change things up on people each day. Theme of Day One: Discover whats new with DSpace, Theme of Day Two:....
[20:59] <kshepherd> tdonohue_: yeah, i think teh tricky bit we're worried about it making sure users know it's switched off by default, and that it may not be production-ready
[21:00] <stuartlewis> Put a big red BETA sign and warning in the header?
[21:01] <sandsfish> http://www.sonyinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/beta-splash.jpg
[21:01] <kshepherd> yeah.. i don't actually see it as a hard problem, just seemed like we were going back and forth for a bit
[21:02] <ClaudiaJuergen> ah damn, I'm an hour late
[21:02] <sandsfish> discovery: who would be the one to configure a separate instance? the one who has to do the work should probably decide if it's feasible.
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[21:03] <grahamtriggs> it would be possible to have the discovery applications alongside the non-discovery applications... but the non-discovery applications wouldn't update the discovery indexes if you add/change an item (and possibly vice versa)... so, they would have to be entirely separate 'repositories'
[21:04] * tdonohue is on incredibly crappy wireless -- sorry if I keep dropping out
[21:04] <PeterDietz> ...could emulate that by having a cron task run every hour to keep the discovery-solr-index in sync
[21:05] <sandsfish> commons-dbcp: if there are no oppositions to the new version, the final question is, do we go with the JDBC 3 or 4 version. apache website states: "DBCP 1.4 compiles and runs under JDK 1.6 only (JDBC 4) DBCP 1.3 compiles and runs under JDK 1.4-1.5 only (JDBC 3)".
[21:05] <tdonohue> grahamtriggs -- that's an idea. Have a separate testathon install with Discovery enabled -- and send people there for testing of it
[21:06] <PeterDietz> ...so, if anyone is going to host their own testathon let me know. This would be easy to help people see the difference between dspace-plain, and dspace + discovery
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[21:07] <mhwood> DSpace 1.7 requires JDK 1.6 so it looks to me like the decision is made: DBCP 1.4.
[21:07] <tdonohue> +1 to what mhwood says
[21:08] <sandsfish> ok, wanted to make sure the "JDBC4" thing wasn't a problem.
[21:09] <tdonohue> PeterDietz -- if there are no takers to setup another testathon instance, technically we could just install a second DSpace on demo.dspace.org, and enable Discovery in that second DSpace only
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[21:10] <tdonohue> i.e. you could still end up with a demo.dspace.org/xmluiDisc/ path -- but it would actually point at an entirely separate install of DSpace. Not sure if that would get way too confusing for testers though (so, a separate site may be better, if we have a volunteer)
[21:11] <grahamtriggs> so, we need to move to the JDBC 4 Postgres driver anyway....
[21:12] <richardrodgers> do we?
[21:12] <richardrodgers> I'm running 1.6 with old drivers & I bet you all are too
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[21:13] <grahamtriggs> doesn't make any sense to go to dbcp 1.4, without going to the jdbc 4 variant of postgres drivers (regardless of which revision)
[21:14] <grahamtriggs> btw, in all my profiling of the browse and associated queries, by far our most expensive SQL now is.... 'SELECT 1' (but that's because it is executed by DBCP as a normal statement, and not a prepared one)
[21:14] <sandsfish> grahamtriggs: commons-dbcp 1.4 supports JDBC4 but i don't believe it requires the use of its features.
[21:15] <PeterDietz> also, I think I'll change the update-discovery-index to do solr.search.autocommit. As I mentioned to a few last week, you get a 10x performance boost for the initial indexing
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[21:16] <PeterDietz> I'll leave to hard solr.committing after every update/delete so that though happen "for sure"
[21:16] <mhwood> So we don't get the nifty new features, but we *do* get bugfixes....
[21:16] <richardrodgers> I have no opinion either way - I'm just trying keep distinct issues distinct...
[21:17] <grahamtriggs> sandsfish: but? We're requiring people to use a JDBC 4 platform (Java 6), we're using DBCP 1.4 supporting JDBC 4, and we ought to update the Postgres jdbc driver version anyway because it's older than the ark... what good reason is there for not making it the JDBC 4 version?
[21:18] <sandsfish> grahamtriggs: not argument there. i think if it doesn't cause any issues, there's no reason not to use it. i just don't think we're forced to use the jdbc4 drivers. either should be fine, unless i'm missing something.
[21:18] <sandsfish> not=no
[21:20] <tdonohue> i think richardrodgers is right -- these are separate. We should go to DBCP 1.4 -- we should investigate whether it's also easy enough to update our JDBC drivers (assuming there are no unanticipated issues, this seems like a good move to me)
[21:21] <mhwood> I need to go. Will catch up later.
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[21:22] <PeterDietz> Ok, meeting officially finished up. I'll stick around for a few more moments. Thanks all for coming, and sorry to those who's time zones have changed, the US will get that this next weekend
[21:23] <sandsfish> thanks Peter
[21:23] <richardrodgers> Thanks Peter & all
[21:23] <tdonohue> thanks PeterDietz & all for the great work on 1.7
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[21:23] <kshepherd> thanks peter, cheers all
[21:24] <ClaudiaJuergen> thanks Peter & all
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[23:39] * stuartlewis (~stuartlew@gendiglt02.lbr.auckland.ac.nz) Quit (Quit: stuartlewis)

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