#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-04-12

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[6:54] -zelazny.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident
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[6:54] * Topic is '[Welcome to DuraSpace - This channel is logged - http://irclogs.duraspace.org/]'
[6:54] * Set by cwilper!ad579d86@gateway/web/freenode/ip. on Fri Oct 22 01:19:41 UTC 2010
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[13:03] <eddies> https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FCREPO/2012-04-12+-+Fedora+Committer+Meeting
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[13:10] <barmintor> cwilper++
[13:13] <barmintor> I'd love more frequent releases, and if sacrificing the notion that 3.6 is 3.last gets us there, then so be it
[13:17] <ajs6f> Chris: Frequent releases buil trust and momentum-- prevent stagntaion.
[13:17] <ajs6f> buil -> build
[13:17] <ajs6f> Chris: Possible indeed to make 3.6 _not_ the last.
[13:18] <ajs6f> Eddie: Just call it "the next release". Could cut what we have now.
[13:18] <ajs6f> Cut a release that is.
[13:18] <ajs6f> Eddie: Including Ben's work on FESL and FCREPO-452.
[13:19] <ajs6f> Chris: Also some low-hanging fruit in performance problems.
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[13:20] <ajs6f> Adam: Isn't this feature-free, and doesn't that mean a 3.5.x, not a 3.6?
[13:20] * EdAtTheAlliance (811398fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:21] <ajs6f> Eddie: Not sure we aren't introducing new features in GSoC code.
[13:21] <ajs6f> Eddie; or backwards incompatibility.
[13:21] <ajs6f> Adam: Don't think we are-- were careful to duplicate APIs and not alter them.
[13:22] <ajs6f> Chris: DSPace folks shoot for one release a year. Upsides and downsides with that.
[13:22] <ajs6f> Chris: We can check whether we're introducing backwards incompatibilities.
[13:22] <ajs6f> Chris just noticed IRC.
[13:23] <barmintor> Chris: Fedora should run on cell phones
[13:23] <barmintor> Adam: And tablets
[13:23] <cwilper> Chris: Can't type and talk and read all at once
[13:23] <ajs6f> Ben: And punch-card tabulators.
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[13:24] <ajs6f> Eddie: But there really is something new by introducing MTOM, and that implies a major version increment.
[13:24] <barmintor> s/major/minor/
[13:25] <ajs6f> Thanks, Ben.
[13:25] <barmintor> :P
[13:25] <ajs6f> Eddie: Okay with a "marketing" release.
[13:26] <ajs6f> Eddie: And go ahead with micro-version releases.
[13:27] <ajs6f> Adam: Folks are beginning to understand that we are moving to 4.x.
[13:28] <ajs6f> Chris: And there's so few resources that we can't easily spread them.
[13:28] <ajs6f> Chris: How about saying that there will be a 3.7, but we wanted to get improvements out there.
[13:29] <ajs6f> Chris: Saying 3.6 will cause people to be appropriately careful with upgrading.
[13:31] <ajs6f> Adam: How about saying that 3.6 is the last minor version in the 3-series, there will be micro releases, pure bug-fix/speed-up releases.
[13:31] <ajs6f> Chris: Sounds okay.
[13:31] <ajs6f> Frank: {yawns}
[13:31] <elschlomo> hrhr
[13:32] <ajs6f> Eddie: We must be careful about future faith in promises. Let's not swear that there won't be a 3.7.
[13:32] <ajs6f> Chris: We can just declare our intent.
[13:32] <ajs6f> Chris: Let's expose our aspirations.
[13:33] <ajs6f> Eddie: Resourcing remains the hardest part to Fedora development.
[13:34] <ajs6f> Eddie: And splitting our time between continued improvements to 3.x and doing 4.x is going to be very hard and hard to justify.
[13:37] <ajs6f> Adam: We've got to be honest about what's going to happen in 3 and what's going to happen in 4.
[13:38] <ajs6f> Eddie: Okay, but let's talk publicly about that _after_ 3.6 or 3.6.1 or whatever, because we need to avoid splitting resources too early or too much.
[13:38] <ajs6f> Chris: Agrees.
[13:39] <ajs6f> Frank: Why not ask the community?
[13:39] <ajs6f> Adam: They'll want it all.
[13:40] <barmintor> If we don't or can't articulate the features of 4.0, the community has no reason to ever say that other features should not be done in the 3.x line.
[13:40] <ajs6f> Eddie: Let's folks who work at institutions what they want.
[13:40] <ajs6f> Adam: UVa would say "Go 4!"
[13:41] <ajs6f> Chris: What about Hydra or other communities?
[13:41] <ajs6f> Jonathan exists.
[13:41] <ajs6f> Eddie: Not that many people involved in Hydra are also really involved with Fedora development.
[13:42] <ajs6f> Eddie: A vision for 4.x is useless without the resources to make it real.
[13:42] <ajs6f> Chris: It's not about what people want, it's about what they will actually pay for.
[13:43] <ajs6f> Eddie: What E. hears is "better performance, better scaling".
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[13:43] <ajs6f> Eddie: and a sense that those things are not going to come without new architecture.
[13:44] <ajs6f> Frank: eSciDoc would pay for better scaling.
[13:45] <ajs6f> Adam: Scaling is annoyingly nebulous as a desire.
[13:45] <ajs6f> Frank: High-level Store would be something F-K would invest in.
[13:45] <ajs6f> Eddie: How about 3.20?
[13:46] <ajs6f> Adam: Urg.
[13:46] <ajs6f> Chris: Not sure a community discussion is the best way to make decisions.
[13:46] <ajs6f> Chris: But we should get input.
[13:47] <ajs6f> Eddie: I can break some kneecaps at UVa to get things done.
[13:47] <ajs6f> Chris: Misses Thorny.
[13:48] <ajs6f> Chris: Will talk to Duraspace about resourcing.
[13:48] <ajs6f> Chris: We need to make people understand the need for invstment.
[13:48] <eddies> that's a fairly…liberal…paraphrasing, adam :P
[13:48] <ajs6f> Chris: Lots of ideas, not so much resourcing.
[13:48] <ajs6f> Dan: Waited for an opportune moment to... strike!
[13:49] <ajs6f> Dan: Until we can speak compellingly about what 4.x _is_, what the big improvements _are_, we can't tell our users.
[13:49] <ajs6f> Chris: Well, there's high-level storage....
[13:50] <ajs6f> Dan: Semantic versioning is good, but major rewrites without new features can be new versions.
[13:50] <ajs6f> Dan: but performnce improvments / bug fixes could go either way (versioning-wise).
[13:50] <ajs6f> And high-level storage could go either way.
[13:51] <ajs6f> Dan: it's about what to take on, not waht we call it.
[13:51] <ajs6f> Dan: Ben's work is important.
[13:51] <ajs6f> Adam: +1
[13:51] <ajs6f> Dan: And the GSoC work is important.
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[13:58] <eddies> summary: revised scope of 3.6: Ben's FeSL work, integration of GSoC work (Adam), and any low-hanging performance improvements we can squeeze in in parallel
[13:59] <eddies> have to run. have another call
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