#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-04-25

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[6:32] * Topic is '[Welcome to DuraSpace - This channel is logged - http://irclogs.duraspace.org/]'
[6:32] * Set by cwilper!ad579d86@gateway/web/freenode/ip. on Fri Oct 22 01:19:41 UTC 2010
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[19:37] <PeterDietz> My status update is that I'm working on statistics with elastic search, and adding FaceBook helpers, i.e. opengraph metadata tags to help when people share an item from our repository
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[19:59] <robint> Hi all, looks like Tim is missing today ?
[20:00] * richardrodgers (~richardro@ has joined #duraspace
[20:00] <mhwood> Yes, I recall he said he'd be unable to attend.
[20:01] <robint> Should we do a quick Jira review ?
[20:01] <richardrodgers> ok by me
[20:01] <robint> https://jira.duraspace.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&jqlQuery=project+%3D+DS
[20:02] <robint> I think thats right, correct me if not
[20:02] * hpottinger (~hpottinge@mu-108023.vpn.missouri.edu) has joined #duraspace
[20:03] <robint> Doh ! Wait a minute...
[20:03] <mhwood> It looks like the last one we reviewed was Ds994.
[20:03] <robint> https://jira.duraspace.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%3D+DS+AND+resolution+%3D+Unresolved+AND+Key%3E%3DDS-995+ORDER+BY+key+ASC
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[20:04] <robint> First one on the list https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-995
[20:04] <robint> support XSLT 2.0 in XMLUI
[20:05] <richardrodgers> my question here is would a simple upgrade buy us anything, without a rewrite of XMLUI?
[20:05] <mdiggory> While I'm really for using XSLT 2.0, its destablized some folks customizations in XMLUI when switching.
[20:05] <helix84> richardrodgers: most definitely yes
[20:05] <richardrodgers> OK do tell helix84
[20:05] <mdiggory> yes I agree, XSLT 2.0 far better than 1.1
[20:06] <mdiggory> more tools, more standard functions, more string comparission, date comparission, localization, etc
[20:06] <helix84> richardrodgers: can't tell you off the top of my head, but when I write XSLT, doing things in 1.0 is much more complicated than in 2.0
[20:07] <mdiggory> everything that was is EXSLT addons went into the XSLT 2.0 standard
[20:07] <helix84> richardrodgers: e.g. date-time functions
[20:08] <richardrodgers> which would simplify current logic in stylesheets?
[20:08] <helix84> richardrodgers: exactly
[20:08] <robint> What would be required to make the change ?
[20:09] <mdiggory> Xalan loosing developer resources is part of the reason you do not see 2.0 as more ubiquitous. There was no one in Apache to port Xalan, so the XSLT community fragmented into two camps... Saxon/XSLT 2.0 vs Xalan/XSLT1.1
[20:09] <richardrodgers> mdiggory: is there an open source Saxon available for us?
[20:10] <richardrodgers> as in FOSS
[20:11] <mdiggory> http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/net.sf.saxon/Saxon-HE/9.4
[20:12] <mhwood> That one is MPL, I think.
[20:12] <richardrodgers> reason I ask, is historically the 2.0 Saxon was not freely licensable....
[20:12] <mhwood> http://saxon.sourceforge.net/
[20:14] <richardrodgers> cool, so that may no longer be a concern, if I'm reading this correctly
[20:14] <mdiggory> no one really needs schema aware processing...
[20:15] <helix84> mdiggory: does the sentence starting "Saxon-HE does not offer all the capabilities..." have any adverse effect in DSpace compared to current Saxon in DSpace?
[20:15] * kompewter (~kompewter@sul272sandbox.lib.ohio-state.edu) has joined #duraspace
[20:16] <mdiggory> yes, I think the real challenge is that Michael Kay didn't like seeing saxon distributed through maven in the past. I think he caved and realized thats a standard for distributing java libs today
[20:16] <helix84> helix84: the sentence is inyour sourceforge link
[20:17] <mdiggory> helix84: we are not neccessarily using XQuery or Shema Aware Processing...
[20:17] <helix84> IIRC, Michael Kay had a problem with ensuring license terms - that license text files must be downloaded every time the JAR is downloaded. Since he put it in Maven, that must have been resolved now.
[20:17] <mdiggory> The feature set of Saxon HE still outpaces Xalan
[20:18] <mdiggory> Package the license in the jar ;-)
[20:19] <helix84> mdiggory: no, it was for 3rd party libs
[20:19] <richardrodgers> So if there are no licensing issues, and no backward-compatibility issues, I'm for it
[20:20] <mdiggory> the dependencies are already jars in the maven central repo....
[20:20] <robint> So it is as simple as changing our dependencies ?
[20:20] <mdiggory> theres some changes in cocoon to enable saxon
[20:22] <helix84> i can volunteer with regression testing if someone (wink wink @ mdiggory) makes a branch
[20:22] <mdiggory> I love it, basically the java community sets the standard for how LGPL will be tolerated/treated... not Richard Stallman
[20:24] <PeterDietz> my sidenote, is that I was thinking to myself if theres any merit to considering a DSpace Google Web Toolkit UI, i.e. gwtUI... as I was banging my head against the wall as how to create html in DSpace-Xmlui-api
[20:24] <PeterDietz> from my limited experience gwt is better / more robust than wing
[20:25] <helix84> PeterDietz: does that have any relation to http://publishinggeekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/sxedit/sxedit.html ?
[20:25] <kompewter> [ Saxon CE / Aloha Editor ] - http://publishinggeekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/sxedit/sxedit.html
[20:27] <mdiggory> peter, what did you want to generate for html?
[20:28] <mdiggory> if I could go back and start over again, Wing would have produced xhtml with "DRI attributes" flagging the merge points
[20:29] <mdiggory> borrowing from html5 to support "navigation", "footer" and "content" sections
[20:30] <PeterDietz> I just reconsidered, and I think its just a lack of clear Model-View-Controller, so I've had to pollute my controller with too much view logic
[20:30] <robint> Sounds like there is general consensus about moving to XSLT 2.0 being a good thing
[20:30] <mdiggory> it would have been open ended allowing nesting of any types of elements, without factory methods.
[20:31] <hpottinger> if someone writes the patch, I'll offer to test
[20:31] <helix84> Just a friendly reminder - it's been 30 minutes on this first issue. Any takers?
[20:32] <mdiggory> PeterDietz: IMO, Cocoon should be relegated to a View technology only.
[20:32] <mdiggory> and leave the Controller/Model to better / more popular technologies
[20:32] <PeterDietz> my issue is that I wanted to include a jquery tpl in my xsl, and the non-XML of that got destroyed by parsing.. i.e. this is something that had to be passed through: <div id="{%= i %}"></div>
[20:33] <robint> helix84: Well prompted. I'll mark the issue as open and cut and paste this conversation.
[20:33] <PeterDietz> that id="{%= i %}" is some magic jquery tpl stuff that cocoon was not happy with.. no amount of cdata would help
[20:34] <mdiggory> put the content in a separate pipeline thats not dri
[20:34] <robint> Should we move on ?
[20:34] <mhwood> mdiggory: maybe then we want to get behind cocoon 3 and push. They seem to have stripped out a lot of stuff that other packages can do and focused down on just the pipelines again.
[20:35] <mdiggory> mhwood: that would be nice. Maybe we should just fork the project and do a rlease ourselves ;-)
[20:35] * mdiggory <-- embracing the github mentality
[20:35] <mhwood> Gah, the problem with Cocoon 2 is that everybody and his brother is maintaining a release.
[20:36] <hpottinger> sounds like an emerging standard...
[20:36] <mhwood> Yes, probably should move on. Status: general interest, awaiting a volunteer.
[20:36] <richardrodgers> I know this is a bigger conversation, but I don't think our backs are broad enough to carry Cocoon and DSpace...
[20:37] <hpottinger> aren't we already carrying Cocoon 2?
[20:37] <mdiggory> a couple parts, yes
[20:38] <richardrodgers> hpottinger: yes, and I think that's costing us
[20:39] <robint> Ok, lets squeeze another one in https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-996
[20:39] <kompewter> [ https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-996 ] - [#DS-996] Add optional reason text to tombstone page - DuraSpace JIRA
[20:39] <kompewter> [ [#DS-996] Add optional reason text to tombstone page - DuraSpace JIRA ] - https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-996
[20:40] <mdiggory> TBH, the ambitions of cocoon 3 developers need to me paired down dramatically if they ever want to release it.
[20:40] <mhwood> C2.2 has had no visible attention from the maintainers in the four years since 2.2.0 escaped, so if you want it fixed you apply the patches yourself and drag it along.
[20:41] <mdiggory> sigh... thats a long old discussion in 996
[20:42] <robint> richardrodgers: Where did this end up ?
[20:42] <mdiggory> I think we did 1 and 2 but not 3
[20:42] <richardrodgers> we shelved it for the last release.
[20:45] <mdiggory> I thought we added something...
[20:45] <mdiggory> I'm digging
[20:46] <richardrodgers> hmm, maybe so, but not all
[20:49] <richardrodgers> anyway, it was a data model issue, so it would make sense to look at it again in the 3.0 timeframe
[20:52] <robint> Unless there is more to add I'll reschedule for 3.0 so that it doesn't disappear from view.
[20:52] <mdiggory> sure...
[20:52] <hpottinger> I think that's a good resolution to this discussion, schedule for 3.0
[20:52] <richardrodgers> fine
[20:54] <richardrodgers> so can I ask for a group opinion on Java 7? I'm concerned that Oracle is EOLing Java 6 in November 2012, and we don't have a plan yet...
[20:55] <helix84> related ticket: https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-1081
[20:55] <kompewter> [ https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-1081 ] - [#DS-1081] Ensure that DSpace 1.8.1 can run on java 7 - DuraSpace JIRA
[20:55] <kompewter> [ [#DS-1081] Ensure that DSpace 1.8.1 can run on java 7 - DuraSpace JIRA ] - https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-1081
[20:57] <richardrodgers> yep, and I think that SOlr/Lucene issue has long been fixed (as of u2, IIRC)
[20:57] <robint> richardrodgers: I think we need to support Java 7 for 3.0
[20:57] <richardrodgers> are any of you running 7 in test or production?
[20:58] <mdiggory> I think we will bring through updates to Solr / Discovery soon, so supporting 7 for 3.0 is a good target
[20:58] <robint> richardrodgers: Not yet. Unlikely before June/July
[20:59] <hpottinger> willing to try running 7 in test environment
[20:59] <robint> Could/should we bring this up on the mailing lists to see if anyone is at ver 7 in the wild ?
[21:00] <robint> I would also be interested in OpenJDK
[21:00] <richardrodgers> Sure, why not ask on devel?
[21:01] <hpottinger> here's a crazy idea, demo.dspace.org is nicely set up to switch out stuff like version of Java/Tomcat/etc.
[21:01] <robint> Ok, I'll email the list to get a discussion going
[21:01] <richardrodgers> we are doing a 1.8 upgrade, and I'd like to use Java 7
[21:01] <mhwood> Running this in production:java version "1.6.0_24"
[21:01] <mhwood> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.11.1) (Gentoo build 1.6.0_24-b24)
[21:01] <mhwood> OpenJDK Server VM (build 20.0-b12, mixed mode)
[21:03] <richardrodgers> thanks robint
[21:03] <KevinVdV> *Needs to run until next time*
[21:03] * KevinVdV (~KevinVdV@d54C154B1.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
[21:03] <robint> I've got to run too, thanks all.
[21:03] <helix84> one point I have about J7 is that Oracle has since J7 stopped giving a free license for distributing the Oracle binary JRE (aka Sun Java) which DSpace recommends. That means for example that Linux distributions cannot package it anymore. OpenJDK 7 is now the official redistributable Java from Oracle.
[21:03] * robint (52292725@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:04] <richardrodgers> Yea, helix84 - I'm assuming we are talking about OpenJDK7 here
[21:09] <mhwood> I have to go, too. Thanks!
[21:09] * mhwood (mwood@mhw.ulib.iupui.edu) has left #duraspace
[21:09] <richardrodgers> same here - bye all
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