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[20:01] <tdonohue> Hi all, it's time for our weekly DSpace Developers meeting. Today's agenda: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2014-04-23
[20:01] <kompewter> [ DevMtg 2014-04-23 - DSpace - DuraSpace Wiki ] - https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2014-04-23
[20:02] <tdonohue> (Attendance here looks a little lower than normal...not seeing many Committers. But, at the very least, I'll go ahead and go through the "announcements" and see if some folks show up)
[20:03] <tdonohue> First off, for anyone attending Open Repositories 2014 in Helsinki, there will be a face-to-face DSpace Developers meeting the Monday morning before the conference. More info at: https://www.conftool.com/or2014/index.php?page=browseSessions&form_session=81
[20:03] <kompewter> [ OR2014 - ConfTool Pro - BrowseSessions ] - https://www.conftool.com/or2014/index.php?page=browseSessions&form_session=81
[20:03] <hpottinger> Here I am
[20:04] <hpottinger> sorry I'll miss OR this year.
[20:04] <tdonohue> I will be creating an OR14 rough agenda and signup sheet soon (likely this week) on the Wiki. I'll send it out on -devel once it's up there
[20:04] <tdonohue> that's a shame, hpottinger :(
[20:05] <tdonohue> Another general announcement (mostly for Committers): We're still looking for a few more 5.0 Release Team volunteers! Get in touch with me if you are interested!
[20:06] <hpottinger> a certain lurker has let on that he is persuadable
[20:07] <hpottinger> sometimes when you talk about him in vague terms he wakes up
[20:07] <tdonohue> well, I think we should persuade "him" then :) We definitely need more folks on the team, and it'd be good to start to draft a 5.0 schedule *prior to* OR14
[20:07] <tdonohue> (I'd really like to announce a tentative schedule for 5.0 at OR14, if at all possible)
[20:08] <tdonohue> (along with a list of the Release Team members, obviously!)
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[20:09] <tdonohue> Another announcement of sorts (which some may have heard about more than others).... In recent weeks a small group of Committers & DCAT folks have started drafting a rough "Product Plan" / Product Analysis for our brand new DSpace Steering Group.
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[20:11] <tdonohue> I've written some notes about that activity into the Agenda (which I'm not going to repeat here)... But, essentially, the Steering Group has asked for some sort of analysis of "where DSpace software is" vs. "where the We/Community thinks it should be", so that we can potentially work towards finding additional resources in achieving our goals
[20:12] <tdonohue> In any case, this small group of 6 folks is rapidly drafting some rough analysis of likely Use Cases DSpace should strive to meet... This work is happening on the Wiki, but it's very much "in progress". We'll be asking for broader feedback from everyone once we get a full "draft" done
[20:14] <hpottinger> so this is apart from the vision group's use case work?
[20:14] <tdonohue> The Steering Group has an upcoming meeting on May 8-9, where they want to start to discuss this work. But the bigger goal is to have a rough draft of a plan to present at OR14 for community feedback. It definitely won't be a finalized plan.
[20:15] <tdonohue> hpottinger: this *IS* the next stage of the Vision Group work. The Vision Group created the Vision Survey, and this small team of 6 folks (some of which were on that Vision Group) is now taking the survey results, and turning them into "use cases" and performing this analysis
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[20:17] <tdonohue> Essentially, a "handoff" has occurred. The Vision Group's work is "complete", but the next stage has started being led by this small team of DCAT & Committers.... eventually though any rough plan we come up with will need to have approval of Committers, DCAT and Steering Group
[20:18] <tdonohue> hopefully that makes some sense. If it doesn't, please feel free to ask questions. Mostly this is just an early "FYI" that this work is going on. Much more will be coming out in the weeks between now and OR14.
[20:18] <hpottinger> welcome to the meeting, PeterDietz!
[20:19] <PeterDietz> hi all. I've been working on my own personal todo-list for DSpace, so I'll check this over, and see whats the best solveable needs for DSpace
[20:19] <tdonohue> now that makes 3 of us :) Though we may have some other lurkers here, it's hard to tell
[20:20] <hpottinger> here in Missouri we've been talking about use cases for our repository and digital library infrastructure, whenever we get that list into shape, I'll share it
[20:20] <PeterDietz> I have some news to share, which will allow me to be much more active in DSpace development.
[20:21] <PeterDietz> Next week I'll start working for Longsight, a DSpace RSP, as a developer to improve and expand the features of DSpace
[20:21] <tdonohue> just to clarify, the "Product Plan" that is being created right now is much more of a set of "use cases" rather than a to-do list :) The Implementation Plan / Technical Roadmap would come later on, once we get a sense of where the major gaps seem to be
[20:21] <hpottinger> I'll make it official: congratulations, PeterDietz!
[20:21] <tdonohue> oh wow! Congrats, PeterDietz!
[20:22] <PeterDietz> Its less so much todo-list, and more so much a gathering of DSpace pain-points, and opportunities to make it better
[20:23] <tdonohue> gotcha. Yea, we'll be asking others to help add/enhance our rough draft list of use cases. Currently we just want to get something rough together (to build from), but there will surely be a period where we'll ask anyone & everyone to come add additional use cases, etc
[20:24] <hpottinger> would there be room for information sharing prior to presentation of results?
[20:26] * hpottinger thinks that job description sounds awesome.
[20:26] <PeterDietz> I wonder what it looks like if you plotted these Use Cases on a 5 axis graph (structure, admin, end user, integration, statistics), and have things DSpace already does, and things that the survey shows as highly desirable. i.e. where DSpace stands in does well, and opportunities.
[20:26] <tdonohue> Yea, there will be a period of Community wide feedback... there's not going to be any "final results" ready for OR14. All we want to present at OR14 is something for the Community to provide feedback on. *After* the feedback period, we'd work to finalize a plan & also locate resources, etc.
[20:28] <tdonohue> So, this is not a small group to "decide it all". This is just a small group to "kickstart" the plan...then there will be an opportunity for everyone to provide feedback/ideas on that brainstormed plan, so we can come to a finalized plan in the coming months
[20:29] <hpottinger> understood, just it seems we're all kind of working on use cases is all... :-) and it bugs me when we all work on the same thing in tandem
[20:31] <tdonohue> though they are separate levels of "use cases" (i.e. not all use cases will overlap). You are working on use cases based on your local needs. Whereas, this group is trying to work on use cases based on global needs. Those that overlap though should obviously appear in both places
[20:32] <tdonohue> In the meantime, to be honest, you are welcome to borrow from this list we are working on. I'll also gladly pull in use cases you may have, if you send them my way. I just hesitate to "open the flood gates" to the entire community until we get some basic examples / rough drafts in place
[20:33] <hpottinger> Cool, I'll take you up on that offer
[20:34] <tdonohue> But, in any case, there's much more to come about this in the coming weeks (and especially at OR14)
[20:34] <tdonohue> Any other immediate questions/concerns though?
[20:36] <hpottinger> none, do us proud :-)
[20:36] <tdonohue> regarding PeterDietz's idea of a 5-axis graph...interesting idea, just not sure how to even create such a thing :) (My mind has trouble picturing more than 3-axis at a time)
[20:37] <PeterDietz> it sounds complex. Somethign a slick consultant company could whip up though.. Make admins happy
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[20:38] <hpottinger> I know a committer who's day job is data visualization
[20:39] <PeterDietz> not really a use-case, but the type of things I'm thinking of, would follow like post-submission curation-task. i.e. Item submitted that hasn't yet been media-filtered, would be tossed into a background queue. As opposed to just nightly cron
[20:39] <tdonohue> that sounds like it'd cost big $$ :) In any case, though, we are hoping to get a decent sense of "what things the survey ranked highly that Dspace either 'doesn't do' or 'doesn't do well'"....as those are the likely biggest "gaps" between where we are now, and where we'd like to be.
[20:41] <tdonohue> PeterDietz: yea, that's more of an implementation goal, unless reworded as "DSpace should have a way to 'schedule' or 'queue' background activities/actions".
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[20:42] <PeterDietz> In my head, its a thing like make DSpace such that nobody has to ever ssh in to the box to toy with things. but yeah, schedule or queue works.
[20:43] <PeterDietz> We had a GitHub Enterprise instance for a year here. One of its magical sights to see was admin-mode, where you could see an enourmous amount of background jobs being run at any given time. i.e. reindex git repos into elasticsearch, etc
[20:44] <tdonohue> Right, I understand your idea & it's a good one. I'm just noting that "Use Cases" tend to describe more general 'needs'...they wouldn't usually mention a technology (cron or ssh or whatever), but just generically mention a user need
[20:44] <hpottinger> I think it's safe to make this observation, at the post SPARC OA DSpace users group meeting, it became *very clear* to me that repository admins are tired of waiting for developers and a development workflow to implement configuration changes.
[20:44] <PeterDietz> So, if DSpace auto-matically could think about running checksums, giving you a graph of how often checksums ran, which objects have valid checksums.. and other things along the checksum lifecycle. As it stands, I have no idea whats going on with checksum. I assume it "just works"
[20:45] <PeterDietz> UI configs.. That would be great
[20:45] <hpottinger> PeterDietz: people sometimes use CI servers for introspection on autmated processes, like cron jobs
[20:47] <hpottinger> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs
[20:47] <kompewter> [ Monitoring external jobs - Jenkins - Jenkins Wiki ] - https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs
[20:47] <PeterDietz> UI configs, follows suit with my keep-people-out-of-ssh idea. Keep them in the UI, give them a tool. If I have my own personal ability to choose the projects I pick up at Longsight, I think these admin-self-service would be valuable things to implement... I agree, I'm saying implementation specific, where as the other process is Use Cases
[20:48] <tdonohue> To step back a bit, A lot of these longstanding great ideas (UI configuration, etc) have a ton of support (from developers & users/admins). The things that have usually been missing is (1) an organized plan to how to make it happen, and (2) devoted resources/developers to make it happen. The DSpace Steering Group is hoping to change that... the goals here are to start to get an organized high-level plan for "things that need t
[20:49] <tdonohue> So, this Product Plan will hopefully start to clarify "things that need to happen". Then, we'll have to work towards finding the resources to make them happen (which is where the Steering Group can help!)
[20:51] <tdonohue> So, I think we'll get there...and hopefully have a better plan in the coming months as to how to start to move in the right direction. It's just still "early days" right now
[20:52] * tdonohue realizes we only have ~10 mins left here
[20:53] <tdonohue> So, I was going to do a status check on 3.3 & 4.2. But, I know mhwood volunteered for 3.3...and 4.2 still seems to have a bit of a ways to go
[20:54] <tdonohue> Do we have a volunteer for 4.2? Just wondering if we need to kickstart it, or if others feel there's "no rush right now"
[20:54] <hpottinger> erm, I think I volunteered to pull the lever on 4.2
[20:55] <hpottinger> though "volunteer for 4.2" sounds a bit ominous :-)
[20:55] <tdonohue> I just meant "pull the lever" :) Though I'm also just wondering how much is left to do, and whether we are ready to schedule 4.2 quite yet
[20:56] <tdonohue> Perhaps the best route here though is to do a full review of "unresolved" 4.2 tickets (next week, hopefully they'll be more folks around), and move from there
[20:57] <tdonohue> Earlier today I also realized I forgot to schedule our next "Let's Talk about Features" meeting. I think it was supposed to have been tentatively today, but I forgot to announce anything on -devel. Should we hold it next week (30th)?
[20:59] <hpottinger> next week works for me
[20:59] <tdonohue> Ok, I'll get that announced later this week then. We'll do "Let's Talk about Features" on the 30th.
[21:00] <hpottinger> we have a minute left if we want to review 4.2 features :-)
[21:00] <hpottinger> (that's a joke, since 4.2 is a bug fix only release)
[21:00] <tdonohue> :)
[21:02] <tdonohue> OK. The only other outstanding question we have is the one about IRC meeting time. I've gotten very little feedback about the 14UTC/20UTC alternating times. So, as of yet, I haven't scheduled any meetings for 14UTC, as I'm not sure if we'd get many other folks. So, if there's anyone (here or reading logs) who would like to see a 14UTC meeting happen, get in touch.
[21:04] <tdonohue> We could always try out a 14UTC meeting one week just to see what happens, I guess. But, at this point I'm hesitant to go forward with the alternating times idea if no one seems that interested.
[21:04] <hpottinger> I really wanted to comb the IRC logs and get some baseline data on meeting attendance, but I never got a chance to make that happen
[21:04] <tdonohue> (I could also always ask this question at OR14 -- it might be a good place to get a sense of whether there are folks who'd show up at 14UTC)
[21:05] <hpottinger> that's a great idea
[21:05] <tdonohue> I'll write myself a note (and try to remember to do so!)
[21:06] <tdonohue> That's it for agenda topics. Any other last thoughts from anyone before we close out the official meeting?
[21:07] <PeterDietz> I'll just mention that I'll be at OR2014, I'm presenting on REST-API, so I'll try to cook up some interesting improvements to that
[21:08] <tdonohue> excellent!
[21:08] <tdonohue> So, hearing no other topics, I'll go ahead an close out the meeting. I'll still be around (lurking) for a bit if anything comes up
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