#duraspace IRC Log


IRC Log for 2016-11-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[6:34] * Topic is 'Welcome to DuraSpace IRC. This channel is used for formal meetings and is logged - http://irclogs.duraspace.org/'
[6:34] * Set by tdonohue on Thu Sep 15 17:49:38 UTC 2016
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[15:01] <tdonohue> Hi all, the DSpace Developers meeting is starting now. Here's our agenda for today: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2016-11-02
[15:01] <kompewter> [ DevMtg 2016-11-02 - DSpace - DuraSpace Wiki ] - https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/DevMtg+2016-11-02
[15:03] * hpottinger (~hpottinge@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:03] <tdonohue> First on the agenda was to talk about a new XOAI release: https://github.com/DSpace/xoai
[15:03] <kompewter> [ GitHub - DSpace/xoai: OAI-PMH Java Toolkit ] - https://github.com/DSpace/xoai
[15:03] <tdonohue> I'm not sure who put this on the agenda, but I recall seeing this come up in #dspace. Were there specific points to discuss here?
[15:04] <mhwood> There are 13 open issues and 7 pull requests that have been hanging fire for months, and users of v4 would like to see someone actually maintain XOAI.
[15:05] <mhwood> It's not currently affecting DSpace since we are backlevel on XOAI, but we did take responsibility for this code....
[15:06] <tdonohue> valid points there, obviously. I wonder if it'd be worth trying to find a "product owner" (for lack of a better term) for XOAI from the Committers team?
[15:07] <tdonohue> It seems like there's a few gaps here... First is that DSpace isn't even updated to use XOAI v4 (though that'd be good to do, and help with this maintanence issue)
[15:07] <mhwood> We do need to have someone feel responsible for seeing that XOAI gets attention.
[15:08] <tdonohue> as a "quick fix", it sounds like we could just find someone to perform a (minor) 4.2 release, per this request: https://github.com/DSpace/xoai/issues/60
[15:08] <kompewter> [ Request for minor release · Issue #60 · DSpace/xoai · GitHub ] - https://github.com/DSpace/xoai/issues/60
[15:09] <tdonohue> Since it sounds like there are unreleased (inherited) fixes to 4.x
[15:10] <mhwood> Hmmm, we seem to be two at the moment. hpottinger dropped off and others are very quiet.
[15:10] <tdonohue> Another option here is to find developers who want to help us manage XOAI, and add them as committers / maintainers of that specific project.
[15:11] <tdonohue> Though, we'd have to be sure there was enough "balance" (so that XOAI didn't get too specific to the needs of one institution/individual)
[15:11] <mhwood> Yes, we should invite others in.
[15:11] <tdonohue> yes, I'm noticing it's quiet here too
[15:13] <tdonohue> Any other Committers around today (helix84, peterdietz, terry-b)? Or is it just mhwood and I in here :)
[15:13] <mhwood> I'm a bit hesitant to just pull stuff and do a release on XOAI since I know next to nothing about it.
[15:13] <mhwood> But I guess I should put it on my list of stuff-to-learn.
[15:16] <tdonohue> It seems like the biggest gap is helping us move DSpace to XOAI v4. Once we are using the latest version, XOAI bugs become our bugs, and we'd find ways to release them.
[15:16] * hpottinger (~hpottinge@ has joined #duraspace
[15:16] <tdonohue> But, I fully realize that's a potentially "large" refactor (though not actually sure what it'd take, TBH).
[15:17] * th5 (~th5@unaffiliated/th5) has joined #duraspace
[15:17] <tdonohue> We do have a ticket for it, which is currently assigned to Joao Melo, but he's been out of touch as of late: DS-2595
[15:17] <kompewter> [ https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-2595 ] - [DS-2595] Upgrade DSpace to use XOAI 4.x - DuraSpace JIRA
[15:17] <mhwood> Hi, hpottinger, we were just talking about getting out a release of XOAI v4 (and bringing DSpace up to current on it).
[15:17] <tdonohue> We probably should move that back to "needs volunteer", and see if we can find someone else to "claim it"
[15:17] <mhwood> Yes, needs volunteer.
[15:18] <terry-b> I just got into work. I'm here
[15:18] <hpottinger> sorry, network troubles
[15:19] <hpottinger> so... XOAI
[15:19] <mhwood> Yeah, we've had a request for a PR out for 15 months. Time for a new volunteer.
[15:20] <hpottinger> so... technically we can't bump to v4 until 7.0, right?
[15:20] <tdonohue> Set to "needs volunteer" and added a comment that we are looking for help and/or maintainers: DS-2595
[15:20] <mhwood> 7.0 begins now.
[15:20] <kompewter> [ https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-2595 ] - [DS-2595] Upgrade DSpace to use XOAI 4.x - DuraSpace JIRA
[15:21] <tdonohue> hpottinger: correct, but 7.0 development is now, as mhwood notes. The only way to bump to v4 is to start working on it now (as I think it's going to require some refactoring of our "oai" webapp)
[15:21] <luizsan> I would like to volunter myself to the https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-2595 , but I'm not sure if I know the DSpace code enough to do it.
[15:21] <kompewter> [ [DS-2595] Upgrade DSpace to use XOAI 4.x - DuraSpace JIRA ] - https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-2595
[15:22] <kompewter> [ https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/DS-2595 ] - [DS-2595] Upgrade DSpace to use XOAI 4.x - DuraSpace JIRA
[15:22] <hpottinger> OK, just wanted to be clear that we're talking about a change that'll be released in about a year
[15:22] <tdonohue> And, I don't think that refactoring would be wasted work, as OAI will always be Java-based (even though the new 7 UI will be Angular2)
[15:23] <hpottinger> luizsan: great! you have time to pick it up :-)
[15:23] <mhwood> We are all here to help when something is unclear.
[15:23] <tdonohue> luizsan: If you are willing to "give it a try", it'd be much appreciated. There's plenty of opportunity to ask for help/support from those of us who do know DSpace well
[15:24] <tdonohue> The changes needed to DSpace should really be refactoring the code under the "dspace-oai" submodule/subdirectory in the latest source code: https://github.com/DSpace/DSpace/
[15:24] <kompewter> [ GitHub - DSpace/DSpace: (Official) The DSpace digital asset management system that powers your Institutional Repository ] - https://github.com/DSpace/DSpace/
[15:25] <luizsan> Ok, guys so let me try, I will start it next week, ok?
[15:25] <mhwood> Thank you!
[15:25] <tdonohue> sounds great. Thanks, luizsan!
[15:26] <mhwood> We still need to do something about accumulated maintenance in the 4.0 line, and ongoing maintenance.
[15:26] <hpottinger> so... about this orphan project we adopted?
[15:27] <tdonohue> Yes, as I said, I think we need a "project owner"...someone willing to help steward XOAI along. I think that problem becomes *easier* once DSpace is using XOAI v4 (as XOAI bugs become DSpace bugs)
[15:28] <mhwood> As tdonohue says, XOAI needs a product owner: someone who keeps things moving forward.
[15:28] <tdonohue> In the meantime though, at the very least it might be nice if we could find someone to "cut" a 4.1.1 release (XOAI is at 4.1.1-SNAPSHOT on master, and seems to have ~20ish commits since 4.1.0)
[15:29] <tdonohue> Most of those 20ish commits though look to be README/Javadocs. Very little code fixes, but there are a few key ones in there
[15:29] <tdonohue> https://github.com/DSpace/xoai/commits/master
[15:29] <kompewter> [ Commits · DSpace/xoai · GitHub ] - https://github.com/DSpace/xoai/commits/master
[15:30] <mhwood> OK, I'll put that on my todo list: release existing XOAI snapshot.
[15:30] <tdonohue> thanks mhwood. I think that solves the most pressing issue (for now) of no releases in some time.
[15:31] <tdonohue> Hopefully then we can all support luizsan in getting us up-to-date to v4, and we'll be in a much better "state" to help steward this work forward
[15:32] <tdonohue> Any other gaps here? Or other thoughts folks wish to put out there?
[15:33] <mhwood> We still need to deal with ongoing maintenance, but maybe it's time to just feel our way forward until we gain more experience with the guts of the product.
[15:33] <hpottinger> if we can't find a project owner for it, do we really get to call ourselves the stewards of it?
[15:34] * hpottinger ducks and hides under a table.
[15:35] <tdonohue> hpottinger: we became stewards because it wasn't being stewarded in the first place. But so far, we've been just as bad stewards for v4 (master). But, we HAVE stewarded/maintained the v3 branch (which DSpace uses)
[15:35] <mhwood> Yes, but we've been lousy stewards so far. Giving it some time should mean that we get somewhat better.
[15:36] <hpottinger> sorry for throwing a brick :-) If I knew anything about it I'd volunteer.
[15:36] <mhwood> By "time" I meant "attention".
[15:36] <tdonohue> To be fair, we're lousy stewards of v4 (as we don't use it). But, we have stewarded v3 (which we do use), and released it last year with bug fixes.
[15:36] <mhwood> True.
[15:37] <tdonohue> That's exactly why I think the key problem here is that we need to start using v4, as it'll force us to steward the latest version ;)
[15:37] * helix84 wakes up and starts reading the log
[15:38] <mhwood> I agree that, when DSpace is caught up to v4, that should help maintain some of our attention on it.
[15:39] <mhwood> So do we have a plan, for now?
[15:40] <tdonohue> So, anything else to add here regarding XOAI? It sounds like we have two "next steps": (1) mhwood will cut a 4.1.1 (to appease the fact that we haven't cut a 4.x release), (2) luizsan volunteered to start updating DSpace to use v4 (and we should all help/support that work)
[15:40] <luizsan> It seems a good plan to me :-)
[15:41] <mhwood> That is probably as much as we should take on right now. But we will need to revisit soon, to work out the way forward after we've caught up.
[15:42] <tdonohue> Sounds like a great plan to me too. luizsan, thanks again for volunteering, and please don't hesitate to ask others for help/support when you need it! (And everyone else, please be responsive to luizsan when asked for help!)
[15:42] <tdonohue> So, moving along to other topics...
[15:42] <mhwood> Good questions usually help me to learn more about code that I don't know well....
[15:43] <hpottinger> will do... luizsan #dspace is the best place to go for immediate help
[15:43] <hpottinger> we can sometimes be sleepy, though, so ping us by name
[15:43] <mhwood> If nobody answers, it's probably because nobody in the channel then knows. dspace-devel is another good resource.
[15:44] <tdonohue> A brief update on DSpace 7 / Angular2 UI work: A small group of us (bollini, artlowel, lieven & I) met today to talk about how best to "organize" this work.
[15:45] <tdonohue> bollini will be leading the REST API work. artlowel will lead the Angular2 UI work (and overall project organization). I'll be consulting with both teams (until I have more time to devote starting in 2017)
[15:46] <hpottinger> I had a question about process, which I sent to Art, but if you don't mind I'll ask it here, too?
[15:46] <mhwood> I've asked and been told that I can commit 20-25% to DSpace (including New UI) for 6 months. After that it's time to ask again.
[15:47] <tdonohue> The general idea right now will be to likely organize into two teams that will meet regularly...anyone can attend either meeting (and doodle polls will start shortly for the first meetings). The team leaders will be working/communicating together regularly to ensure info is shared between teams
[15:47] <tdonohue> but we feel this will allow each "effort" (REST vs Angular2 UI) to get concentration on their needs separately (in these team meetings).
[15:48] <terry-b> I am committed to working on the REST side as well.
[15:48] * wild_oscar (~malmeida@webservices.itclinical.com) has joined #duraspace
[15:48] <tdonohue> The small team (bollini, artlowel, lieven & I) will be drafting up work tasks for the teams / doing further organizing over the next week(ish). The goal is to ensure we have stuff for these teams to "start discussing" at their first meetings
[15:49] <mhwood> Good, that will be helpful.
[15:49] <tdonohue> The first REST team & Angular2 team meetings will likely be mid-November (week of Nov 14, hopefully). But, we want to be sure we have tasks/questions laid out for these teams prior to that
[15:50] <tdonohue> (And a Doodle poll will be going out to Committers & others who've expressed immediate interest about the exact time/date. These meetings will be public too)
[15:50] <hpottinger> my question: can we have someone take up the role of "customer" if we're really going for "agile"?
[15:50] <wild_oscar> howdi. I'm Miguel. I spoke with pbecker last week, regarding XOAI and its release. let me know when you reach that topic on the agenda
[15:51] <terry-b> I plan to read up on Spring/REST for the effort. I am curious if there are any recommended resources to review
[15:51] <tdonohue> hpottinger: we talked about that. We don't think that's a role that a *single person* can achieve (as we all have different aspects of an ideal "costomer"). But, we hope to rope in DCAT as the "customer" and give regular updates during their meetings
[15:52] <hpottinger> understood, I just think it would be great to have a DCAT member or two on each team, to help "keep our eyes on the cards"
[15:52] <tdonohue> We also feel that each of us know what our institutions are looking for / wanting, so some aspects of the "customer" role will be in the team itself (especially also since we have very active RSPs in each group)
[15:53] <mhwood> hpottinger: agreed. I feel that any story which begins "As a developer" is not a proper story and should not be allowed.
[15:53] <wild_oscar> ah, damn! I looked at UTC at the time we discussed and it was 1 hour less than mine. apparently I'm now at UTC since last sunday...which means I'm late :/
[15:53] <wild_oscar> Did you discuss XOAI already?
[15:53] <tdonohue> hpottinger: yes, that would be nice too. How DCAT members get involved will be up to them (and we need to talk more with them about it). Ideally we would get a few in meetings too
[15:54] <tdonohue> wild_oscar: yes, sorry, we talked XOAI already (at the top of the hour). logs at http://irclogs.duraspace.org/index.php?date=2016-11-02
[15:54] <kompewter> [ IRC Log for #duraspace on irc.freenode.net, collected by DuraLogBot ] - http://irclogs.duraspace.org/index.php?date=2016-11-02
[15:54] <hpottinger> I don't want to be too pedantic about it, I've never really "done agile" an any meaningful way, but I do know the customer role is designed to counterballance what mhwood just alluded to.
[15:55] * tdonohue is going to need to run to a DSpace Steering Group meeting in a few minutes (~5mins)...just an FYI
[15:55] <terry-b> "As a developer" could be valid for a REST story
[15:56] <tdonohue> hpottinger: I agree with that role. My point here is that I worry that these meetings will start out very much "in the weeds" (technology wise). I worry the DCAT folks would be better spent on helping in UX design (which we also hope to find their help for)
[15:56] <tdonohue> IDEALLY though, once we get "out of the weeds", regular atttendance in meetings by DCAT members would be very helpful
[15:57] <hpottinger> DCAT folks aren't afraid of weeds :-)
[15:57] <mhwood> OK, so we need to get something out there for users to criticize. We already know in general that the New UI should look and feel like DSpace in some way.
[15:58] <tdonohue> Again, these meetings are PUBLIC :) Anyone is free to attend. We're agreeing here that DCAT attendance would be highly recommended. We want to *at a minimum* present progress at DCAT meetings (for group feedback and keeping us honest)
[15:59] <wild_oscar> apologies for the mix up in time. I'm reading the logs. tdonohue, mhwood: I'm mmalmeida on github. nudge me at the end of the meeting so I don't disturb. tl;dr version: I've been committing to XOAI, partially know it, was committer in lyncode repo and code reviewed with joao and am confident in reviewing and merging most open tickets there
[15:59] <tdonohue> If we have a DCAT meember want to be a regular attendee, awesome. If not, we'll have to make due with getting feedback at DCAT meetings
[16:00] <tdonohue> I apologize, but I have to run to another meeting (DSpace Steering Group). I'll have to catch up in the logs later on
[16:00] <tdonohue> (ugh, back to back to back meetings today)
[16:00] <mhwood> Will we be putting something up on demo, as soon as we have something that runs? With warnings that it is rickety and incomplete, of course. But having a working-ish sample of what we are doing would be useful.
[16:00] <mhwood> Thanks tdonohue.
[16:01] <mhwood> wild_oscar: it is good to know that. I'm sure that there will be questions.
[16:03] <mhwood> So, is there more to discuss now? We are at the end of the formal meeting time, but I can stay for a while.
[16:03] <terry-b> mhwood, do you have any recommended resources to review in prep for the REST work?
[16:04] <wild_oscar> mhwood: reading your suggestion for a 4.1.1 release. my team has a fix ready for one of the open tickets, so do talk with me before you perform the release so we can squeeze that fix too
[16:04] <mhwood> Who, *me*? I need to study a bit myself. (And get one of the Angular2 books that are, at last, nearing release.)
[16:04] <wild_oscar> oh, sorry, it was tdonohue
[16:04] <mhwood> wild_oscar: I will do that. Thank you for mentioning it.
[16:05] <wild_oscar> <tdonohue> In the meantime though, at the very least it might be nice if we could find someone to "cut" a 4.1.1 release (XOAI is at 4.1.1-SNAPSHOT on master, and seems to have ~20ish commits since 4.1.0)
[16:05] <mhwood> Sorry, "who, me" was for terry-b.
[16:05] <mhwood> I have volunteered to release 4.1.1.
[16:05] <hpottinger> I will admit to going into "find us a volunteer for the customer role" mode
[16:06] <terry-b> mhwood, based on a quick search, I might check this out: https://spring.io/guides/gs/rest-service/
[16:06] <kompewter> [ Getting Started · Building a RESTful Web Service ] - https://spring.io/guides/gs/rest-service/
[16:06] <mhwood> terry-b: thanks, that should be helpful.
[16:09] <wild_oscar> mhwood: ok. Reference me on github or drop me a line on irc. I'm on irc on weekdays (#hibernate and #struts at the very least)
[16:10] <mhwood> Thank you.
[16:11] <mhwood> Is there any more discussion, on any topic? Or should we close the meeting?
[16:16] <mhwood> Seeing no answer, I'll declare the formal meeting closed.
[16:20] <mhwood> I'm usually in this channel and #dspace 0800-1700 GMT-5 M-F.
[16:20] <mhwood> But right now I'm going to step away for a few minutes.
[16:59] * hpottinger (~hpottinge@ Quit (Quit: Leaving, later taterz!)
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[18:16] * kompewter (~kompewter@ec2-50-17-201-82.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[20:59] * th5 (~th5@unaffiliated/th5) Quit ()
[21:01] * mhwood (mwood@mhw.ulib.iupui.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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